Dream of 4 horsemen I never new about.

[ledzie15]

In my dream I was coming out of this small town market where everyone in the store was frantically grabbing bread. So, I get out side, the clouds are dark dark and gloomy, and I have this memory and say to myself..."Oh my god. somethings gonna happen and I was warned about it. It was a warning from real life, a dream, or a book...what is it?" (and keep in mind, it was only until after I told my dream to ppl that they told me about the four horsemen being a sign of the apocalypse) So i look to the sky and four horsemen ride down from the clouds and onto the ground. I get into my car, and some guy on the street begs me to stop and listen to what he has to say, but I'm too scared so I drive off to my house.

Night rolls around, and I look out the window to see helicopters with lights patroling the sky along with flying cars. The officers in them are dressed in uniform and all have tinted glasses and helmets. I notice that nobody is on the streets and that they are going to each window and talking to people. A female officer comes to mine and tells me to open the window. I say "no!" she tells me I better let her in, and when I decline again and shut the blinds, she rears back the car and drives forward, trying to shatter the window without success. and through the crack in the blinds, she tells me just to wait, I will get what is coming.

So basically the dream goes on, with patrolling going on at night in the sky, and on foot during the day. I had to communicate with my family through the crossword sections on the newspaper and you weren't allowed to trade goods, so to get food you had to very nonchalantly do it in secret. The dream ends when I meet this girl who I am fascinated with. She has blonde hair and bright blue green eyes. Her eyes are what I was going off about to other people who didn't seem to notice her. then I woke up.


I have looked into this now after I had that dream, and I am familiar with revelation now, but I just wanted to share this because I had never even heard of the four horseman, nor read much of the Bible before this dream, which makes this prophetic dream even more interesting and strange to me.

[manchildwitness]

There have been many remant Christians, (those of us not in the apostate "harlot" churches), that have had similar dreams.

People were fighting for bread. When the Economy collapses (and it will), the store shelves will be cleared out. With something such as an extended bank holiday people will not have access to their funds; if the dollar completely crashes, and seems most plausible as they are devaling its worth everyday as they print money out of thin air, those that especially live in the cities will frantically loot the grocery stores. Remember New Orleans Katrina?

Due to a law by FEMA; food stock piling is not allowed. They will take people's food away that has stockpiled food.

An "event" will bring about martial law. A man of God came from Romania (he was imprisoned and then exiled for preaching the gospel and sending Bibles throughout Romania & Russia), and warned the USA of it's coming destruction. His name is Dumitru Duduman, you can google him on the internet. He was shown that the people would begin to fight against the government, and the USA would be busy with internal problems and Russia, China, and other nations would nuke the USA. David Wilkerson also spoke this as well as others. The false prophets in the "Harlot" churches are still preaching peace peace and fleecing the blind sheep of their $, selling their books, and pushing the Rapture false doctrine, (that doctrine actually didn't start circulating until the 1800's here in America).

Revelation 18: Mystery Babylon IS the United States of America; the Holy Spirit has already revealed that to many Remnant believers; it's not ancient Babylon (doesn't even fit the description), not Rome (it is stupid to think it's Rome)....Jeremiah 51 speaking of the USA too. Do you actually think that the world's superpower would not be mentioned in the last days?

I had a dream about 1 of the 4 horsemen last night.

(Did you know that the area of Ground Zero was actually the location of the first capital in 1789, it wasn't Washington DC, and in 1789 the forefathers met and prayed for hours; and the conclusion was to dedicate the nation to God, the God of Isaac, Jacob, and the father of Jesus Christ; this was Sept 13, 1789....).

Dreams & open visions from Remnant beginning in the 80's: Economic collapse; pestilence; foreign troops on US soil; nuclear holocaust.

FAMINE - PESTILENCE - SWORD

[presence]

Your dream is from God.

Those that read it with an open heart will know because the Holy Spirit testifies to the words you have written.

Jesus is Lord.

Prepare for what is about to happen. Prepare your heart.

[rodm]

I came from a violent home, (drugs, alcohol, gun shots, being chased with knives, people thrown through picture pane windows), in fact I was born three months early because my father kicked my mother in the stomach, breaking her water. I was born weighing two pounds nine ounces.
As early as 7yrs old, I was out on the streets till 3-4am, I was put in several orphanages...
I remember, late one night my father snuck into our house, he put a loaded pistol in my hand and told me too shoot my sisters and my mother, it was crazy. Through all of this, (which I wouldn't change), I came out a fairly normal kid, I was involved in sports and didn't do drugs, or drink. I thought I was a survivor, wanting only too make it through another day.
At the age of 16 I started too sense a need in my life, an emptiness that I couldn't explain.
I knew I had to find God/Jesus, but who was HE? I had no idea where to find HIM, so I went to the local library to find books concerning world religions, God, and the occult. At the library I met Gary Osborn he saw my books and decided to share the message with me. Gary invited me to pray with him and his wife, so I did, I remember saying "God forgive me for my sins, and whatever you have for me I want it all". At first nothing happened I expected, lightening or something. Gary said, "Just go home and praise God" I said, "What’s that, mean" Gary said, "Just thank him".
The remaining is sacred to me. Before I asked Jesus into my heart, I never heard voices, I never drank, and I never did drugs, but one week after meeting Jesus while in the middle of my last class, while at school, A voice, just as clear, as someone standing next too you, spoke, the voice spoke, it said to me, "tell them about Jesus" I was surprised, but unafraid, I put my hand over my mouth, since I didn't want anyone to think I was talking to myself, I said (to whoever spoke to me) "I don't know what to say" the voice said "don't be afraid, I'll give you the words to say" To this day I don't remember what I said, but I spoke to those kids about Jesus and salvation, their mouths just dropped open and then, class was over, I walked out of that room, feeling like I had never felt before.
The next day was Saturday; I slept in the living room on an old couch. When I woke it was early and I decided to turn on the TV, to watch my favorite cartoon, the roadrunner. As I sat there watching the TV, I got up and looked outside, everything was so beautiful, (I never appreciated nature, I just wanted too make it through another day). BUT now it was so pretty, I sat back down on the couch, and as I did, all of a sudden I was somewhere else.
I was sitting at a long rough hewn table, to my right was Jesus, in front of me was the father, I couldn't see him, I just knew he was there. To my left was Satan, him I could see (he looked like a man only very big). Instantly three bowls appear, filled with what looked like porridge. Now the father spoke and said Satan dismiss yourself, Satan stood and screamed, then vanished. Three bites were taken out of the bowl. Then all at once I was watching myself from a distance, like watching a big screen TV. I was walking with Jesus up a grassy pathway. Jesus was speaking to me but from a distance I couldn't hear him, I could see myself shaking my head (like I understand) then through my eyes I saw the TV, the cartoon was still playing, I was again in the house, where I had been sleeping.
I didn't know what had happened! I'd never experienced anything like that before! I KNEW GOD loved me and wanted something from me...My total surrender, my life totally under his control, every second, moment by moment, and I was consumed with this one desire, to PLEASE HIM; Let me give you an example: When a friend from school would come over and say, "Let’s go to a show" I'd say, "hold on." Then Id go in the bathroom and pray, "Lord should I go?" Sometimes the Lord would say "go", sometimes "no" At times He was silent, when this happened I would look inside my heart, (Spirit) (Colossians 3:15) if I had peace I would go, If not, Id stay home.
As I practiced this new desire, (surrender), I noticed the voice of the Lord became more frequent and clearer, (John 10:27). The word of the Lord will always agree with the true meaning of the scripture. (Although it may not agree with your interpretation of the scriptures). There can be a difference between “the Word” and “the Scriptures”.
I new I needed to get a bible, I went to a bookstore and I got the largest family bible Id ever seen, with pictures and everything, lol.
I was so happy. That night the voice of the lord said, "Read Matthew 5." I had to look in the contents; I didn't know where Matthew was. When I found it and started to read, the words became a ("Word of the Lord to me") they just jumped off the page, they seemed to come alive, and they filled me, with hope, love and peace. I knew God loved me, my sins were gone, I was forgiven...
As time passed I grew in Him. Sometimes Id walk into a busy office or building and the Lord would say go sit by that guy. I would strike up a conversation, then say "you don't know me but I'm a Christian and God is going to share with me about your life" I don't mean simple things like "you have the flu" or "Headaches", but deep, personal things that others couldn't know or even guess. People would usually start to cry and ask "how did you know?” I'd say "I didn't but God knew, and He loves you, and sent me to talk with you".
One of the lessons from the Lord concerning trusting Him happened like this; I was traveling from Philly to Atlantic city, I got on the road, and started to hitch a ride, (it wasn't illegal at that time) within one hour and twenty minuets I was in Atlantic city (which was a one hour drive!) I got 4 different rides, as I stepped into each vehicle I boldly proclaimed "Hi I'm a child of the King, and God's going to bless you for picking me up!" God gave me very personal details about each of those people and all but one came to Christ.
When I got to Atlantic City, God said, “when you get to the prayer meeting tonight I want you to give all your money, to Johnnie". I said "Lord that’s all I've got?" (About 300.00) God replied; "you take care of your brothers and sisters in the Lord and I'll take care of you." So upon arriving in Atlantic City, I secretly gave all my money to Johnnie, (this was to cover something for Johnnie that was very personal, so I know he didn't share this with anyone).
That night I asked myself "how am I going to get back to work, tomorrow? I didn't have a penny, not even enough for bus fare, and in my spirit I knew I wasn't to hitch hike, but instead the Lord wanted me on the bus. After sleeping that night and leaving the brothers house the next day, I started walking to the bus station. As I got closer and closer, I was imagining, "is the driver going to just “know” he’s suppose to let me ride for free?" But as I approached the depot, a brother named "Chicky" came out of his house and said "I think the Lord wants me to give this to you." It was exactly what I needed for bus fare!
This has been a short summary of my life.
Oh one more thing. Life didn't continue this way for me, I ruined that.
Should I confess the most difficult thing in my life with you?
After all we are strangers!
After living this way for sometime and seeing my life change, and having peace beyond comprehension. I disobeyed the lord after he spoke too me. I lived to obey him, it was my passion…But there was a problem in my life that God wanted to fix. (God wants us to love Him most of all. He doesn’t want anyone else to even be a close second place in our life.)
I knew a man, he was a believer, and his name was Bob. Bob is dead now, I loved him very much, he was like the father I didn’t have. One day I went to visit Bob, we talked and prayed for a while then Bob said, "Paula is gone (Bob's wife). “Why don’t you go to dinner with me"? Immediately the Lord spoke "don't go! I said “Bobby I can't go”. He said "go with me". I said “Bob I can't”. I prayed back to the lord, in my mind saying "Lord it will be alright, you know I don’t drink, I'll just eat something with Bob" The Lord didn't reply. So we went. All was well until a brother named Aggie started to argue with Bob. I couldn't watch, so I started to leave, as I went outside Bob said “if your going to walk you might as well walk all the way back too Washington, and don't come back" OH the pain. Well the next morning, Bob and Paula showed up, Bob said "forgive me I'm so sorry", the Lord spoke instantly and said "forgive him, go to him tell him it's ok and that you love him". I said "Lord I can't. I won't, it hurts too bad". So. My life, outside of God’s will, was torture. No peace, no answers, sin in total control.
Jean Nicholas Grou says, "God delights in two things, for a man to know God and to know himself." I now know what I'm capable of without him, living life for myself, Sinning, being rebellious.

A long time ago (about 28yrs ago) was the last time I had the Lord speak to me audibly. I was in a Dentist office, and as is the case even now,as it was then 28 yrs ago. ..the Lords presence became so heavy, I stated to cry, the dentist wanted to know if I was in pain? I said no...Then the Lord spoke, He said: "Rod, I'm going to take care of the whole thing, I'm going to put it all together for you, just trust me".

I have a strange conviction about surrender, it is in my heart that God desires "ME" to surrender all things; Thoughts, feeling, motivations, desires, time, activities to HIM, moment by moment. Since the flesh wants to live moment by moment, it makes sense that God would desire that kind of surrender from us. For HIM to live through us, moment by moment. And this was the way I lived yrs ago, as you read in my testimony)....God help me!!!My wilderness is so silent and lonely.

[rodm]

Here is My Brokenness Dream; Dream #1:

I was on the head of a beast, in a large body of water (Like the ocean). It was night and the darkness was so real it could be felt. The clouds above were very thick and black. The beast was thrashing as if it wanted to throw me off. I was so afraid!
I was holding on as tight as I could. Then I looked up, and when I did, the clouds opened and rays of light came through the clouds, with the light came that voice that I had heard before and knew so well.

He said "Rod; if I'm ever to use you, I must break you"!
I woke, wet with sweat, shaking...Saying as I woke, "thank you, Lord you haven't forgotten me"

Here is Dream #2:

I am in a church; it is a large church, one that in reality I have never seen. This was a dream that was so real; it was as if I were really there.
In the dream I am cleaning the bathroom floor, on my hands and knees, with a small brush. I stand as a priest comes into the room. I start to speak to him, about spiritual things, he listens, and then I leave the restroom and enter the foyer.

I notice the large room is built in a round fashion and that the windows are also large. People are leaving to go outside. As I exit the building, an earthquake hits, I look up and the sky is doing this "warp 9 star trek" kind of thing. I look to my left and I notice a man is in his car, his head is bleeding, he is dead.

Everyone starts to rejoice, saying "yes that is the big one"! I yell "No". "There is another one coming, and it is much larger"

I start to run for my home, and as I cross a large open area, I reach what looks like a ditch. I jump, but instead of a ditch it a huge open area, a chasm, the ground thousands of feet below! I start to fall so fast, picking up speed as I fall. I yell out "Jesus save me" Something grabs me and lowers me to the ground gently...I start running again.

Here is Dream # 3.

I see a street sign, the name on the sign is Jordan Road. I am walking and then I get picked up by someone in a van. He asks were I'm going and I tell him a few miles ahead.

Then as we reach the destination, I thank him, and look to my right, there is a house in a field. The house is glowing and the light is emanating from the inside of the house, and is visible to me even from a distance.

I know the people within the house are waiting for me, and that I have been somewhere, doing HIS will / work, and that I traveled in a spiritual way, but arrived back in the van.

The love and light from the house are supernatural, the love I feel for them, and the love I perceive from them is not normal love.

Here is Dream # 4:

I am in a large room, with many people, I recognize one or two people, the room is full of people from many different places.

I am standing on a raised platform, that is aprox 6-8 inches higher than the floor.

Then I know I am suppose to speak the following words; "Holy Spirit come"...

When I speak the words, God's presence comes very heavy, most fall down, some start to weep and convulse, others are crying for joy.

[marywilkinson45]

Hi rodm, I too had such a wonderful relationship with our Lord. I got cought up in the world some where down the line. How does one find there way back? It seems the more I try the more opposition comes against me. I miss hearing the lord talk to me. I miss hearing his voice. I know he is with me. And you no I have been hurt by many people I know the only reason I survived it was because of jesus. I know that I need to forgive and when I think I have, well just a thought brings back alot of hurt and anger and thats when i realize that I have not truely forgiven them. Its sad THANKS this may sound crazy: But your testamony opened my eyes about alot of things. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU.

[rodm]

Thank You Mary, I will post some more. Possibly it will help you. I know you are Ecklesia...We are owned by Him, and He sees us always as a part of Him. And as he said about David (even after david commited adultery, murdered to cover it up, and was deceitful) God still called him a man after his own heart. Bless you. I am going to post some more thoughts today.

Originally Posted by marywilkinson45

Hi rodm, I too had such a wonderful relationship with our Lord. I got cought up in the world some where down the line. How does one find there way back? It seems the more I try the more opposition comes against me. I miss hearing the lord talk to me. I miss hearing his voice. I know he is with me. And you no I have been hurt by many people I know the only reason I survived it was because of jesus. I know that I need to forgive and when I think I have, well just a thought brings back alot of hurt and anger and thats when i realize that I have not truely forgiven them. Its sad THANKS this may sound crazy: But your testamony opened my eyes about alot of things. THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU.

[rodm]

Now let me share some thoughts/opinions:

1).How do you describe this LIFE? As a Christian it's hard to do. As I recall moments in my own life, I think of times of stillness, in the midst of activity or in the quiet of night. The presence of His Spirit was there, sometimes speaking other times He was silent, yet the undeniable presence of His Spirit was so real. You couldn't describe it too anyone else, sometimes he was so near, almost physical, at other times He was, just felt, deep in your heart.
I could at times think, and He would answer. Sometimes the answer was spoken, and at other times it was a still small voice in my heart.
Sometimes I would see a person, and while looking at them, I knew about them.
I recall the passion to tell others about him at any given moment, looking for such an occasion never caring where I was, or who was near by.
Constantly His Love moved over me in waves and yet it abode, never departing. I would wake up in the middle of the night and He was there, like a mother hen.
I remember the love for others that was not my own. I remember feeling, and being, separate from the world yet still in its midst.
I recall not worrying about the kind of car I drove, or the condition of my clothes, knowing that He was fully aware of all these things.
I recall being invited out for dinner with brothers, and thinking (silently between myself and God), "Lord I don't have any money, but I'm hungry" and then someone would say "hey I'll buy ok?"

Do you have days like this?

Do you remember days like this from your past?

I believe this is something no one can take from us. This is why WE MUST EXPERIENCE GOD! Experiencing God is more important than the scriptures! You see if you experience HIM then, Bible revelation can be added to you. But if you don't experience HIM first then Bible knowledge is just a compilation of facts, they are true, but they don't have any place of reference, without HIM.


2).Most of my life, at least as far back as I can remember I've had a desire and love for God/Jesus, even though I didn’t know who He was.

As I've grown older, I've seen many things in "Christendom".

I've seen communes (come and go in failure).
I've seen myself and other brothers walk in their own ways (you might call it backsliding).
I've been hurt by supposed brothers in Christ.
I've seen TV preachers act cocky, and ridiculous.
I've seen people chase tithes and money.
I've seen people in big churches (faithful tithers) go without help while in need.
I've seen people chase their own kingdom and building programs. I've seen people pretend to prophecy, yet they were not HEARING from HIM, (and in failure, excuse themselves by saying they were practicing).
I've seen names in lights (but not Jesus name).
I've seen people destroyed by the shepherding movement.
I've seen men of god after devoting their lives to "the ministry" destroyed after a single mistake, instead of forgiven.

On and on I could go... So does any of the above remind you of the book of acts or the first group of believers?

In contrast (religion), always attended by praying people, people arguing scriptures and doctrine, yet hardly displaying life.
Then of course there is the occasional believer who is submitted to the (breathings) of the Spirit, this believer shares out of the reservoir of undeniable life (the fellowship between this believer and the Spirit). This bears fruit since it’s not just a message of words but is accompanied by this fellowship and life. The preaching of the gospel by religious folks just doesn't work! How could it, they are not ambassadors of the very Spirit they claim to represent. Why? Because they refuse to give up their life through that act of ultimate death; which is the "surrender of self".

The first century church in the New Testament turned the world upside down in a short time. NOT because of their words alone but because of the LIFE residing IN them. This was a spirit thing...NOT a mental thing, it wasn't an agreement with certain doctrines or creeds, it wasn't from arguing the scriptures, it wasn't from forming a new church or denomination, they had and were living LIFE, just like Jesus 24/7 every moment of each day, a life of submission, pleasing the father, a life defined by others as "seeing they had been with Jesus". Being in his presence and service, is the key. Paul called this being a love slave, a life like Paul's multiplied thousands of times over will "again" cause the world to SEE and HEAR the TRUE gospel. Jesus’s desire is that HE lives through you. You would just be a vessel, like Mary, carrying Jesus inside her body, before He was born. You would carry Him too, but now by His Spirit living through you.

3). I have to believe, it starts with God putting a hunger in your heart...Now if that hunger exists, and it sounds as though it does, for you sound like a seeker...Then...Approach God in a simple fashion, (for me it was doing the only thing I knew to do, I went to the Library to research books about religion and God). Then shortly after I prayed with Gary. I just knew in my heart that God wanted my whole life, every thought belonged to him, so I started with my thoughts, if I had a thought that came into my mind and it said "give that person a bible" or "tell that person that you are a Christian and that you will be praying for them". I would obey....

So seek HIM and I'm sure you will meet HIM, maybe in a different experience, but never the less I'm sure His goal will be the same...To possess your whole heart.

4). A Christian historian tells a true story about a peasant in the 1600's living under the rule of the Catholic Church. The peasant is working the field and a cardinal and his procession go by, as they approach the cardinal speaks to the peasant, about a new edict from Rome. The cardinal quotes a verse of scripture; the peasant replies that the cardinal quoted the verse incorrectly. The cardinal says to the peasant "How would you know, being you are unlearned and illiterate?" The peasant replies: "because the spirit IN ME said you quoted it wrong"!

How true this is, if we only have the book and don't hear that still small voice on the inside, from the throne of our heart the center of HIS kingdom! Then I fear we miss the most important piece of intimacy, yet HIS Word and HIS scriptures work together, one a current guide for us THE NOW and the other, which can still speak but was spoken to another hundreds of years ago, serves as a foundation. But We live by breath, and the words that proceed from the mouth of God, "My sheep know my voice" "for those who are sons of God are led of the spirit of God"

Originally Posted by rodm

Thank You Mary, I will post some more. Possibly it will help you. I know you are Ecklesia...We are owned by Him, and He sees us always as a part of Him. And as he said about David (even after david commited adultery, murdered to cover it up, and was deceitful) God still called him a man after his own heart. Bless you. I am going to post some more thoughts today.

[rodm]

My version of the Christmas Story:


One thing about God...He loves us and we are flawed...So what does He do? Reject us? Despise us? Leave us? Get angry at us? NOOOO.... He loves us. If He were to leave and forsake us when we make a mistake,
large or small, HE would have no bride left...All of us SIN...

What does He want when we sin? RUN TO HIM, bury your face in His skirt. Do you know what he says to you? "I love you, go and sin no more. But if you do, I will still forgive you again and again" Would I ask you to
forgive your brothers over and over, and neglect to do the same myself?

We miss the point of the story, in Luke, where the son realizes that he would be fed and loved in his fathers house: The story goes like this (rod's paraphrase)... "I'm so hungry, I know what I should do I will go to my father, and I will say father I have sinned against you, and heaven"

So off I go to my fathers house...But the weirdest thing happened, while I was still a long ways from the house, my father, he sees me, and as I get near and try to give Him all of my reasons for sinning, He
just doesn't even hear my story...Its as if He is preoccupied with another desire... I guess He was, for to my shame now I realize how much He loves me. And this was all realized by me, when I hear Him yelling; "get some good food, find my son some shoes, and some new royal cloths...For he is home again, we must celebrate"...

The bible says that when we are in heaven with Him, He will wipe the tears from our eyes...WHY will we be crying? Because of sin? NOOOOO. We will be crying because we see Him for who He really is, and because we see that during our whole lives we have misjudged and falsely accused God. We thought He was a monster, when in fact all He wanted to do was reveal Himself as a savior and friend..That's why the old testament
seems harsh, and displays the law to us, and requires a penalty...So that God has someone to save...a reason to send Jesus to die...So that we might receive forgiveness, and be with HIM forever... You might say why did He have to do it that way? Why not just forget the law, and forgiveness, and just let me be with Him as I am? God is holy, its His right to make a requirement and good of Him to fulfill that same requirement for us, as a gift...


Another Open Vision, while awake...

I was in a class with about 30 people, we were waiting for the instructor to come to class, I was sitting quietly by
myself, everyone was drinking coffee and talking to each other. I wasn't thinking about anything necessarily, but ,most of the time as in now, my mind is on God.

All of a sudden I wasn't seeing this room anymore, nor was I shocked in my mind "saying hey, where did everyone go, where am I"....(It was like you being at home you expect to be there)...I was seeing the earth, I was high above it, I was in the sky / clouds.My body looked as it does now...I looked down at the earth it seemed hundreds/thousands of feet below me.

The people were moving rapidly, as if trying to hide. Then I look to my right, and I see Jesus, his face is obscured by a cloud but I see his robe, belt, and sandals... I said "come Lord Jesus" and as I did my vision came back through my eyes...

When my vision came back to the room I was in, the instructor had just set his foot inside the threshold of the door. I was sitting as I was before, I looked at those around me, no one was paying any attention to
me. It was as it was before the vision...

Originally Posted by rodm

Thank You Mary, I will post some more. Possibly it will help you. I know you are Ecklesia...We are owned by Him, and He sees us always as a part of Him. And as he said about David (even after david commited adultery, murdered to cover it up, and was deceitful) God still called him a man after his own heart. Bless you. I am going to post some more thoughts today.

[rodm]

ARE WE SAVED or LOST via FREE WILL? Do We Choose God or NOT?

We have made a God of free will. God in Romans 9 seems to paint a different picture, and God states that there are some HE created as vessels of dishonor to show his mercy.

The Jews protest Paul's statement, and say "who then can resist his will"

Paul's response back is "Who are you to argue against God!"

God is Sovereign.

Think of the implications: We wouldn't need Christ, and God would never be a redeemer without the fall of Adam and Eve, so was the fall in the garden planned?

We seem to think his hands are somehow tied by our all-powerful human will, but that's not true.

God has mercy on whom he will. Then it says those who were predestined unto salvation believed. Not the other way around. Notice what it says: God calls only those who are to inherit eternal life, because they were in Him from the beginning. Its like collecting eggs out of a chicken farm, you only collect those which already belong to you. God has called me and others are to be revealed which belong to the father's house.

If there was no fall in the garden there would be no Jesus, no eternity.

And surely you don't believe at the fall, God panicked and went running
for plan B?

Scripture is plain as day that the truth is *spiritually* discerned, and the carnal or natural man cannot "get" it. Peter received insight that Jesus is the Christ, and Jesus explained that this revelation was given to him by the Father. Peter didn't just figure it out by being smart or special or holy, and neither do we.

We can't debate people into the kingdom of God - to try to do so, and then condemn or vilify those who aren't interested, is a work of the flesh.

We too often rely on "might" or "power" to change the world, but it's only by His Spirit that real life takes root. We need to afford people some slack, and realize that we believers aren't any better than anyone else.

We have to trust God, for he can do no wrong, he is
holy, and we must trust him with these things...So I say God controls
all things and plans all things and is still without fault. Can your
faith take you that far?

Originally Posted by rodm

Thank You Mary, I will post some more. Possibly it will help you. I know you are Ecklesia...We are owned by Him, and He sees us always as a part of Him. And as he said about David (even after david commited adultery, murdered to cover it up, and was deceitful) God still called him a man after his own heart. Bless you. I am going to post some more thoughts today.