India get's nuked on February 04, 2008

[messenger]

Originally Posted by Andrew Ian Murphy

I was thinking about a couple of things regarding this matter and prophetic dreams in general...if time does not exist as we understand it, and if what we see in our dreams is visions of a possible future, are there beings out there who can see this future too...and perhaps give us these dreams? For those religious among you, the answer is an easy yes...but I wonder, why is it that we see only half of the matter?

For example, I never saw the face of the woman, just her back...I am pretty sure that she is my ex-sister-in-law...even when I met her, I thought so...but if this dream was given to me by some creature...what could the purpose be? No one believe my dream...there is so little that I can do it is ridiculous. If I knew the names and places to be bombed I could do a lot more...and if I knew those responsible...

My point is, this event, as well as countless others in our collective history is totally preventable, is it not?

Why not prevent these things?

Personally, I believe that as a civilization, we are all being manipulated into a better position for some master manipulator to take advantage of our dilemma.

Part 1: I just posted in the thread called "premonitions". In part, it might answer with a real answer why we have these type of dreams. After you read my other post, I want you to read the following that I offer to you as an answer.

In the first question as to "WHO" gives us these dreams, it really isn't important as the Bible says that these are of GOD. It does not say Jesus or an Angle, all of which we know exist per the Bible. In numerous places in the Bible, almost "hidden" and spoken of in riddles at times, it talks about the "visions" we are given. In the stories of many before us who had these type of "visions", the words printed often times is proceeded with "....while I was sleeping" or "was awoken....", which causes anyone of just mind to infer this means "dreaming". The Bible clearly says "dreaming" and "dreaming although the eyes were open". "Vision is also used in text.

We can recall each detail very clearly and for years. Yet other times, it can be different as we are all different and so is the information. Many times, because of the information, our minds can't handle seeing the truth. It can, and at times is even "hidden" from us for a time. Which means we have the same dream over and over again but remember nothing. Then sometimes while awake, we can have a "flash back" of sorts and "pieces" of the dream flood in. God gives us or "allows" this vision but blocks us so we don't have to deal with more then our brain can handle. This is what causes "some" of us, I included, to be able to "know" while I'm sleeping, that "I'm having one of those not regular dreams" .... and my words in my brain screams, "try to remember .... you need to know this ....." and this can cause me to wake up sweating and remembering pieces. Sometimes nothing at all until another night while sleeping, I'll see the images again and my brain kicks in saying ... "this is the same one ... try to remember", "wake-up and remember". Raising children in the numbers my husband and I have over the years, at times I've had a sick child with flu. This will wake me up in the middle of the night usually with my husband begging me to PLEASE wake up! He claims I was VERY hard to wake and a few other things he has observed but I'll shut up here. Anyhow the point is, when I do go back to sleep, I can return to the very same dream. Sometimes on purpose and other times beyond my control.

[messenger]

Part 2: to Andrew Ian Murphy

Last question in your first paragraph: Why only parts and not a whole as in the example of your ex-sister-in-law. The important point given to us is from God or by His direction/His purpose! If we were to see a person we recognize, it can cause us to fixate on the subject and not the message. Especially in the case of your ex-wife's sibling. In this case, your proving the point . When we dream we are still God's creation and given to wander ... meaning we are still human. Perhaps God didn't want the message to zoom into her and who's baby or why she was pregnant. Boy or Girl? The purpose was so you could recognize the "point in time" this might occur. The timing WAS important ... NOT the WHO.

So "WHY" is your next question. Why are you "given" these "images or markers of time". The Bible says the path to Heaven is narrow, and few will find it ...." but it also explains that "not all will find the way". It also states that "...even my very elect will be deceived". So ask yourself now ... who is His very elect? If "Elect" means elected before birth and this isn't a job of ones choosing or a job application applied for ... then how could His very elect be deceived? I didn't write the Bible my friend and this is a good fact! I can't tell you but hope to point you in the right direction. I have to be VERY careful with what I say to you because the last page of the Bible is VERY clear ... least to me! Revelation 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things written in this book." So I'll try to help lead you in the right direction by asking you a few questions. Answer them to yourself and quietly. Would you be the same person without these dreams? Without these dreams and knowing how very different they are, would YOU believe "someone else" if they came to you and spoke of such things? Would you understand the gravity of such "dreams" or would you think it was the persons diet? Would YOU listen in the last days of "The Beginning of the End of Times" to the whisper or voice telling you which way to "walk"? Could YOU identify the voice, or feel the power of belief in the voice of God? With the "visions", do you have a better chance of NOT being deceived? With the visions, will your "lamp light go out"? Without these dreams, what "question" in life would have more of a profound impact on your life and hold true meaning? Is there ANY OTHER movie, vision, dream or question on earth that can better cause you to ponder your steps and direction in life? Will these type of dreams prevent YOU from ever denouncing God as your Lord, God and Father?

[messenger]

My friend you need more time in the Word of God. I mean this with a loving heart! If your question was sincere and honest ... the only answer is reading the Word of God. Only He can direct you. Be careful my friend because I too asked inside of myself the very same questions you've asked (I didn't have computers or the Internet invented to cheat) but God answered in a huge way without me ever getting on bended knee or praying hands ... just inside my soul. But that was enough for God to put me on "the fast track" of what I've come to lovingly call " a quest". Morning, noon and night ... and while I slept, nothing but "things" and words entered my brain. I could be tending to one of the many diapers that needed changing during the day when a Book and Verse would scramble across my brain. I have always had a problem with names and numbers but despite my short comings, the Book Name and Verse was still in my head hours later to look up in the Bible. Many times I woke with another one to look up, so I got use to sleeping with a pad and paper on the nightstand to write down. Funny tho, because when the sun came up and I hadn't had enough sleep and had children and other stuff to tend ... God filled me up and my days were smooth. I found rewards just for being obedient in following directions. Many times during a good movie or snuggling with my husband, I'd say "OH please not now, I need a break" ... but God never left and I reaped huge rewards. Each day I was closer and closer to God and His understanding. This is His way. Your understanding shouldn't and can't come from me or anyone else .... God is capable of giving you His very best.

Now to your last question: Preventable? NO! Think for a moment, please. What you are asking. Do you believe in God and "all things have a purpose" or do you think they just "happen by accident"? Sorry my friend, I believe in GOD and ONLY GOD! Therefore all things have a purpose and MORE then that .... He is in complete control! Always in control! Using an example of in ...."the days Noah" pretend you lived during this time. Now you had a dream or "vision" of what was to come. So you decide to change (?) (fate) (God's Will?) a prophecy? What man thinks he can "over-ride" God's plan? Even if you had "powers over God" to change what YOU think is wrong suffering, would YOU want to? Would you still have the gall knowing that God gives life and takes life? As Christian's and believers in Christ, we might not want to understand all the judgments or long suffering of the people "we choose" to believe are God's children. We tend to have mercy when we don't have the power to give mercy. We aren't capable of even understanding mercy! We don't Know who is pure and who is not. We can not judge! So when God told Noah that the Earth was to be flooded and all that was not on the Ark was to drown .... if you were Noah, would you think that by dragging them up onto the Ark you could save them from damnation and more so yourself? No man will ever change God's plan. Through the blood of Christ, we have a chance of salvation .... and this is often worded as "life".

[messenger]

This is not a life of this world, nor body of this world, nor living our lives we know now. We can not save the "lives" from disaster here just as Christ didn't "save" the lives of those who hung on a cross next to Him.

Read Ecclesiastes 3: 1 to verse 8. "A time for everything". When I was younger, I too wish I could save the world ... but can I? All the tears I cried for those lost REALLY MEANT that I was standing in JUDGMENT OF GOD HIMSELF! Who am I to question God? Did Moses save the lives in the wilderness of 40 years from the punishment from God with his truth? The story of Moses isn't all rapped up nice and sweet. Many times God was angered by His people that he made Moses responsible for. And Moses was a KNOWN prophet but couldn't save one life himself! It would seem that Jesus Christ would have had a better chance of "saving" people from physical destruction then Moses or me ..... HE IS THE Son of God. But did He save all people? NO Jesus couldn't "save" them from mortal death anymore then you or I. Jesus, and Jesus alone through His shed blood is the only chance of "saving" people with the chance of salvation. People then and now have the right to choose.

In the 911 situation, would anyone be able to change one thing? From experience, let me give you the answer .... NO! A "vision" of 4 planes coming down ... boom, boom, boom, boom in rapid succession 3 and a half weeks prior doesn't even get them to the long end of the questions, searching your house, making children cry, your husband asking you to stop, and everyone around you thinking your a quack! This isn't even speaking of the many phone calls where people hang up with you .... does anyone know what it feels like or sounds like to have the phone slammed down over and over? ... and I'm sure calling the President is an easy thing and they will surely put you on the phone with him immediately ... asap. But it does give enough time to be medicated and stuck in a hospital hearing people around you saying you had a nervous break down wondering if you'll ever get out if you pass the mental tests ..... and in the end you're out but only because 911 happened and it became true .... and here again, people are afraid of you and can't look you in the eyes. They are scared, yes but just maybe I was too especially because over and over again I had to re-live it, in detail in a dream.

[messenger]

In closing to Andrew.

Sorry this was long and might even sound snotty ... which I didn't mean for it to sound but was trying to help you be able to think in your future "quest" with God. Plus we surely will have others who have a hard time understanding so I felt the examples would help.

In closing: A sure clue ... one of many in the Bible which IS the ONLY WORD of God: read where the words of "prophet" and "dreams" exist in the same verse .... Numbers 12:6. There is even a "test" of what is real and signs of what is not .... all within the Bible. The "test" of the dreamer is not 50 out of 100. The test is 100 % percent every time .... to every detail .... and the Bible warns that anything short of it, is a liar and "soothsayer".

Everything you seek is written within the Bible. Seek and you will find.....

[rmahil]

Sorry messenger I have to contradict you. I disagree with you that the Bible is the word of god. To us it is not regardless of what you think and believe.

You may hate me for believing this way. But I will stand for what I believe in.


Guru Granth Sahib is Our Word of God.

And this is only God to us forever, it is nothing according to your beliefs!

One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace ~ Jap.

True In The Primal Beginning. True Throughout The Ages.
True Here And Now. O Nanak, Forever And Ever True. ||1||

So I will beg to differ from your views and your hard-heartedness.

[messenger]

Why do you feel you have to attack people within this site? It seems to me that if you were so comfortable with your "religion and beliefs" then you would be more secure and NOT have such a need to attack others.

Do you KNOW your religion or beliefs? Really KNOW? It would seem to me that anyone who "knows" wouldn't have such a severe need to ask everyone else on this forum QUESTIONS! I didn't ask about Guru's, nor Shaman's, you did and don't they follow the same "like" general principals yet different?

I said "God" and you said "God". I too challenge you to read the Bible. If it is all just garbage, then it will still be just that when finished .... garbage in your opinion! Unlike you, I'm never afraid to pick up another writing of another. I'm not afraid to "study" other religions or peoples perspectives on their beliefs! Did I EVER say that another Book of another did not influence me? Did I EVER claim that another Book was not a true inspired "word" of its writer? Others on this forum have also said God and Jesus, not just me. It seems to me that what they seem to know or believe doesn't cause them fear of NOT KNOWING and ATTACKING others who call their God by another name!

You believe and apparently follow Guru O Nanak? Really? I didn't know he claimed to be a God. I thought he is known to be a prophet, is he not? And if this is who you follow, then why did you break his first primary message? Is this not his words, or teachings and direction: "His primary message to society was recorded to be "devotion of thought and excellence of conduct as the first of duties".

Where is YOUR "...devotion of thought"? Where is YOUR "...excellence of conduct"? You are NOT a credit unto yourself nor to Guru O Nanak if this is the case here. But I do believe that many other followers of Guru O Nanak haven't attacked others as you do here. I believe they hold their beliefs near and dear and follow his principals and messages. I believe they have "devotion of thought" and allow themselves to "think" about what they believe without fear of their ears hearing "something" new or old.

Watch before you leap! You might want to consider who you attack in the future. It seems to me that all the "other good folks" on this forum practice good decorum BY NOT ATTACKING OTHER PEOPLES RELIGIONS or PERSONAL BELIEFS!

I though this forum was for dreams in general ... and I didn't know I posted my response to you and not Andrew! I'm sorry you were .... (?) (insulted) (in competition) or just EXACTLY was it? Do you even know "WHY" you chose to attack me? Before you have a chance to lie and say it was in my words ... just remember I'm NOT the ONLY one you have attacked in this forum, so it could NOT be by my words alone!

Have a blessed life and I hope you find all the answers your looking for because it seems it is you who is "lost" and trying to find his way, not I.

To all others, I do sincerely apologize for the interruption to your forum, and I do enjoy the many different views on topics. It gives GREAT food for thought and challenges me to remain open about all dreams, meanings, and diverse people around the world which I do feel is very important. Not a one of us is a credit unto ourselves nor the beliefs we follow, and this includes me.

[rmahil]

how did I attack you?

[rmahil]

Messenger,

I feel a lot of hate energy from you. If you dislike me for me just say so, you don't have to use religion for grunt work!
I am a human being just like you are. And I am equal to you before God regardless of your political party.

Everyone should work to gain God's favor, what is politics and what are riches and power. Today we are here and tomorrow no one knows!

If God's not in it, neither am I, so I will not talk to you if you just want to put down people who are different than you.

I hope you look to God, Make of all including me.


I pray for India and its neighbors.
Peace and love~

[messenger]

It was in the way you "spoke" in print.

"To us it is not regardless of what you think and believe." This sentence has a bit of a problem to begin with. It doesn't make sense with the "not" in it. Did you mean "To us, it is (not) regardless of what you think and believe."
Second point to ponder: "To us...." doesn't this imply that "us" does not include me whom believes in the same God you do. What caused me to be so separated from YOUR "us"? Third point: Is what I think and believe so VERY different from what you believe? I don't recall you asking me if I've found other Books besides the Bible that contain God's truth, did you? Have you read all the Books available to you including the Bible? Have I? Yes I have read many Books! More Books then JUST the Bible! Am I willing to still continue to read? YES! Will I ever completely read all the material out there that the world has to offer? I doubt it in my life span. Have I read materials on the 2 Guru's you follow? Yes I have, and don't find it funny or that it is by accident that they mirror the words of God written within the Bible too. I believe "WE" have a Supreme Being called God whom none can compare themselves with. This being so, I can imagine many, many inspired writers authoring Books about His principals. I believe so deeply that I can see that some have studied so extensively over the hundreds of years past and present, to gain the title of Prophet, Guru, or Shaman, professor, minister and so on! None of which I claim to be. Do I claim to follow one of these "teachers" and only one whom is the ONLY correct one? NO! Under God I'm most humble .... I myself am nothing.


"And this is only God to us forever, it is nothing according to your beliefs!" What? .... "And this is only God to us....". Are you saying He is YOUR God only? Are you His chosen? His ONLY chosen? "....forever" you are His only chosen? Is He not a God of all people? A God of all Nations? If anyone claims to have "God", then they should at least know that He IS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS .... which includes people and Nations.

I'm going to leave this where it sits right now between us. I sincerely believe that this serves as a good lesson to me .... because I believe that perhaps I didn't "read" you as overzealous and excited about your religion, but saw it as an attack. For this I'm sorry if I was wrong, but it was based on the topic of dreams not the name of "our" personal God.