Shaman

[Squirrel]

Please note that the word "shaman" is NOT NATIVE AMERICAN either in origin or popular usage among us. As a Native American I can tell you that we are polite in allowing the monicer, and may use it as a catch all term among the uninitiated so that the modern European can comprehend the many facets of Native American healing systems and people. But the term "medicine person" or other more specific term depending on the medicine person's expertise, is the proper use for us in reference to those that deal in spiritual matters. We may practice some aspects of "shared shamanic ritual" but that is totally up to the medicine person and is not Native American in origin.

The title "shaman" has it's origins in Siberia from the manchu/tangu/russian languages. ""Xaman" means for one "to know hidden things." Some linguists belive the term goes even further to a Sanscrit origin. The exceptions to the rule to Native Americans using the term would be our extreme northern brothers who still have had Shamans in the past and still do. Also in the 1800s the tribes in Mexico used the term since it pretty much describes the way their own medicine people work. Carlos Casteneda is credited with the term being further widespread as a result of his writings.

Also, from first hand personal experience, "medicine people" or shamans if you wish, can be and are the biggest trickesters that you will ever find. They laugh at the drop of a hat and they will not pass up the opportunity to play a good joke. The belief is that laughter is a necessary healing mode and there is a dire need for it. But the term "trickster" in itself goes way beyond what the white man thinks and the "tricks" can get quite serious. A trickster in it's strongest form is a deceiver and believe me, there are those skin walkers out there that do nothing but deceive. We call them Coyotes. Yes, we honor the Creator, and nature and work with spirit and will spend lifetimes learning our craft. But we are also pragmatists. So in general, there are no Native American Shamans. There are Native American Stone Talkers, Crystal Gazers, Hand Tremblers, Shakers, Sky Talkers, Dream Talkers, Plant Talkers, Singers, etc. etc. If you go to a reservation and ask to see the "shaman" you will most likely be politely ignored at the least and escorted bodily off the res at the worst. I suggest if you want to speak to a "shaman" then pack your woolies and grab the nearest plane out to Siberia.

Te' Ochiawame...
Squirrel

[rmahil]

Thank you I have looked up information on my own.
And in fact, I have had an experience also. Thank you for your input.


Thanks
Rupie

[Squirrel]

The question was not do shamans exist, the question was who and what they are. I repeat, there are no Native American shamans. You may think there are, but each tribe has it's own titles and except for those previously mentioned, shaman is not a term we indear or foster. No self respecting medicine person would refer to themselves as a "shaman" unless he is trying to teach the dull of hearing and needs a point of reference to "begin" with. As I said, it has become a misused catchall term. Why is it that we aren't labeled "Sangomas or Kahunas"? They are the same thing, healers and medicine people. A sangoma is a Zulu holy man/healer and Kahuna is basically the same thing from our Hawiian brothers and their title has been disrespected to the point of being just a slang term. But in reality a Kahuna is a master healer and spiritualist worthy of the term KAHUNA. So why not call Native Americans wise men/healers/medicine people KAHUNAS? In reality we are medicine people, medicine men, medicine women, medicine beings. "Medicine" referring to a healing or blessing energy, no matter what it is. And the "jesters" as you would refer to them ARE people of repute, healers, teachers and respected and revered. They play a vital and necessary part of tribal life, no less in stature than the tribal leaders. To disrespect one or think lightly of one is to invite trouble on ones self. This is why they are called "Sacred Clowns." Of course I don't expect understanding outside of native circles since Eurpoeans have no equal to this office. Humor is just part and parcel of our tool kit. And our tool kit is not the same for every people. A turtle shell rattle makes no sense to my people, we use gourd rattles. What the healer/medicine people use depends on their geographic local and what is available to them. I drum, rattle, use flute medicine, use a deer skin, tobacco, sage, copal, wild rosemary, herbal tea, whatever is usable locally. My plains brothers use a buffalo skin and skull, but that would make no sense to me since there are no buffalo where my people originated. For us (Yoeme) flowers are big medicine. For other tribes, flowers are just flowers. Our medicine people are medicine beings or curenderos (healers.) Not all of us work the same and a shamanic type of practice is no where close to what some of us may do, so why call us shamans? Simply because we do things that may be similar in practice does not make us shamans.

[rmahil]

Who are Shamans? I am still not clear. Are they God-conscious people or not??

[rmahil]

Resinlove,

Thank you for clarifying it if they were God-conscious beings. I wanted to know it because I wanted to understand the significance of seeing one in a dream.

If you are correct in saying that they are God-conscious people, please let me know if you agree on this fits with their description that is in our book.

Thank you!




Here it reads in Guru Granth Sahib p 273:

The God-conscious being is always unattached,
as the lotus in the water remains detached.

The God-conscious being is always unstained,
like the sun, which gives its comfort and warmth to all.

The God-conscious being looks upon all alike,
like the wind, which blows equally upon the king and the poor beggar.

The God-conscious being has a steady patience,
like the earth, which is dug up by one, and anointed with sandal paste by another.

This is the quality of the God-conscious being:
O Nanak, his inherent nature is like a warming fire. ||1||

The God-conscious being is the purest of the pure;
filth does not stick to water.

The God-conscious being's mind is enlightened,
like the sky above the earth.

To the God-conscious being, friend and foe are the same.
The God-conscious being has no egotistical pride.

The God-conscious being is the highest of the high.
Within his own mind, he is the most humble of all.

They alone become God-conscious beings,
O Nanak, whom God Himself makes so. ||2||

The God-conscious being is the dust of all.
The God-conscious being knows the nature of the soul.

The God-conscious being shows kindness to all.
No evil comes from the God-conscious being.

The God-conscious being is always impartial.
Nectar rains down from the glance of the God-conscious being.

The God-conscious being is free from entanglements.
The lifestyle of the God-conscious being is spotlessly pure.

Spiritual wisdom is the food of the God-conscious being.
O Nanak, the God-conscious being is absorbed in God's meditation. ||3||

The God-conscious being centers his hopes on the One alone.
The God-conscious being shall never perish.

The God-conscious being is steeped in humility.
The God-conscious being delights in doing good to others.

The God-conscious being has no worldly entanglements.
The God-conscious being holds his wandering mind under control.

The God-conscious being acts in the common good.
The God-conscious being blossoms in fruitfulness.

In the Company of the God-conscious being, all are saved.
O Nanak, through the God-conscious being, the whole world meditates on God. ||4||

The God-conscious being loves the One Lord alone.
The God-conscious being dwells with God.

The God-conscious being takes the Naam as his Support.
The God-conscious being has the Naam as his Family.

The God-conscious being is awake and aware, forever and ever.
The God-conscious being renounces his proud ego.

In the mind of the God-conscious being, there is supreme bliss.
In the home of the God-conscious being, there is everlasting bliss.

The God-conscious being dwells in peaceful ease.
O Nanak, the God-conscious being shall never perish. ||5||

The God-conscious being knows God.
The God-conscious being is in love with the One alone.

The God-conscious being is carefree.
Pure are the Teachings of the God-conscious being.

The God-conscious being is made so by God Himself.
The God-conscious being is gloriously great.

The Darshan, the Blessed Vision of the God-conscious being, is obtained by great good fortune.
To the God-conscious being, I make my life a sacrifice.

The God-conscious being is sought by the great god Shiva.
O Nanak, the God-conscious being is Himself the Supreme Lord God. ||6||

The God-conscious being cannot be appraised.
The God-conscious being has all within his mind.

Who can know the mystery of the God-conscious being?
Forever bow to the God-conscious being.

The God-conscious being cannot be described in words.
The God-conscious being is the Lord and Master of all.

Who can describe the limits of the God-conscious being?
Only the God-conscious being can know the state of the God-conscious being.

The God-conscious being has no end or limitation.
O Nanak, to the God-conscious being, bow forever in reverence. ||7||


The God-conscious being is the Creator of all the world.
The God-conscious being lives forever, and does not die.


The God-conscious being is the Giver of the way of liberation of the soul.
The God-conscious being is the Perfect Supreme Being, who orchestrates all.

The God-conscious being is the helper of the helpless.
The God-conscious being extends his hand to all.

The God-conscious being owns the entire creation.
The God-conscious being is himself the Formless Lord.

The glory of the God-conscious being belongs to the God-conscious being alone.
O Nanak, the God-conscious being is the Lord of all. ||8||8||

************************************

Whether Shaman have these characteristic or not, I don't know because I don't know them.

Our Guru wrote this about the God-conscious person before he was martyrred by an earthly ruler. So this is what we believe about people who are God-conscious on earth.

[ShamanMystic]

Shamans in dreams...mmmmm

Could mean alot of things... How u know it was a shaman in 1st place? Clothing? drum? other items? maybe u get telepathic idea?

And no a "real" shaman in a dream is not the wise old man archetype of Jung... ie Wise old man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

shamans see dream world as "spirit realm" it in three parts..

lower, middle, upper realms....

lower realm =land of dead.... place of ancient one, giant snake, 3 women ie norn, muses, fates, furies, whatever u want call em - land of giants....

middle realm - place of 4 elemental spirits 4 deer / winds / etc..

see world tree / axis mundi / cosmic tree

i thunder dreamer (been killed and dismembered in vision long ago then reborn in new body with the sign of uttko ....) greatest visions are with thunder greatgrandfather apache.... greatgrandmother was SAMI...... those clowns referred to above are Heyoka......

[pikka]

What made you think it was a shaman? Just curious.

[rmahil]

I think it was just an impression I had and knew there were shamans and people living there, although I really never experienced anything like this in my life.
I don't quite understand the complexities of dreams but I appreciate your replies!

Thanks