The Anti-Christ/(messiah) is HERE?!

[.Nia mor]

That´s a lie!.

There are many ´antichrists´. atheists for example, never mind about the rumors. If he could exist obviously he will hide his ID.
He was born. He´s an old. lol, no, seriously he is old now , damm, a clergy member
-friends beside and
enemies nearby-

[hazelflame]

Originally Posted by MannyAnalogue

Hazel

I want to start by asking you to have an open mind about what I have to say, just as I'm trying to do with you. Even though we might not believe the same exact things, I believe we can be civil and respectful in our differences.

I started out with this because it seemed like you might be on guard after the last comment so anyways, on to the topic.

I remember seeing commercials (yeah, really) for this guy and his organization on tv maybe 4 or 5 years ago. They didn't come on so often, but the basic message was that this man was another avatar for God. If I remember right it said something like "throughout history there have been great prophets . . . Christ, Krisna ect ect and now (man's name). The run up on their faith is that all religions should meld and see that they're all worshiping the same God. This idea is similar to what Ramakrishna believed and taught.

He studied and practiced Christianity, Islam and a few other religions over some years and felt sure that the religion he was practicing at the time was right and true and singular (first Islam then Christianity)then somehow came back to believe that "we all worship the same God". From there he started his doctrine.

From what I've read (not extensive or anything), he seems to have been a decent, honest and happy man regardless of if you believe he's burning in hell or not, you have to admit that he wasn't trying to rule over or brainwash people.

You and the Christians you know obviously, wouldn't fall for it if it was a anti-christ scheme and I can speak for myself and both the Christians and Non-Christians that I know- none of us are mesmerized or caught up in this man and his message.

Doesn't the Bible say that the anti-christ will be loved and people will be drawn to him(wasn't it 80% of the people on the Earth or something)?

All I'm saying is, this idea of his isn't a new one(there are a few doctrines and faiths that basically believe the same idea) and that everyday people aren't drawn to him.

That's my two cents, for whatever it's worth.

I look forward to hearing what you think mana.

- Manny

Hi Manny, thank you for your thought-out reply. Well, the truth is...it seems right now like there is many many false-prophets who claim that we should "Meld" all of the religions together. In fact I was one of the very 1st people on here to state Obama as being a possible candidate for that....& almost nobody could see that. Now, everyone is "Waking up" to the fact that he is not what he claimed to be before his presidency. (thats because people are too drawn to "words' rather than "actions."

I didnt come on here to STATE he is THE anti-christ, but merely to create a topic where people who actually "Understand" scripture can have a chance to express here if this guy Maitreya would be qualified for that label.

Maybe this guy Maitreya hasnt shown himself to the world YET, because he has to wait until things get really really BAD. We have not reached that point yet, but are climbing over that peak really fast.

If our government (& other nations), school system, & eveything else that controls how & what we do Crumbles to destruction....you very well know that the people are going to WANT an Answer from Someone>>>>anybody.

Which makes Mankind very vulnerable to whatever *New* system they throw at us. Most of us will Blindly except this new system because we were brought up to Not ask any questions, just do as your told because "they" know better.
We were never actually taught to think on our own,....& those who do, well theyll be considered radicals & persecuted because they werent asleep like the rest of the group.
I have had many dreams these past few years, & some came true while some didnt make sense (until a far later date)
Now, they all have become *Crystal Clear* to me.....and for those people who have this Waken-up syndrome (lol), I believe it is their job to try and waken up the rest while were reaching that Peak.

[MannyAnalogue]

Hazel

I understand your point and that you have your beliefs. Maybe it was pointless for me to respond to your thread, especially after you stated that it was for people who "actually believe in scripture", but I wanted to give my opinion as someone outside your faith. I wanted to show also that non-Christian's aren't all against your religion and that we are capable of honest and respectful discussion.

To be honest most of my friends and family are Christian or Catholic(obviously in America, that will be the case usually), and I've had many many discussions. Some of these discussions went sour, but mostly they were with people I wasn't close with. I do believe we can come to understanding, though I know it's difficult when the people you're speaking with are fanatical and/or angry, people whose mouth is always open, but whose ears are firmly closed. That goes on on both sides, and I'm sure you can agree.

I'd like to have a discussion with you about religion, but because of past experience, I don't think that it would go well on this site.

Again though, thank you for speaking to me with equal respect and consideration.

- Manny

[IrisRavenstar]

Originally Posted by karmicresponse

nDear writer: To understand the antichrist concept takes a lot of reading ands listening. The term antichrist was developed by the seer Nostradamous. Nostradamous named three of them in the perkiod of time interval he covered which was between the year 1,300 a.d. and the year 2012.

Just curious, so I looked up antichrist in my concordance, and it looks like the earliest reference to the term IN THE BIBLE is in 1 John 2:18, where it makes reference to antichrists, plural. "Children, it is the last hour! As you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come!" My footnotes say the term was coined by Johannine Christians, and simply means "opponents of Christ" or "false teachers."

Of course, they also thought they were living in the End Times when that was written. Curious, isn't it? Why are people in such a rush to have it be the End Times?

Other references to antichrist are in 1 John 2:22, 1 John 4:3, 2 John 7.

I'm not sure how Nostradamus fits in, and actually doubt that he does.

Every time I hear the word Antichrist, I think of an original Star Trek episode where a man arrives from space and is terrified of the arrival of another man who is seemingly his twin, but made of antimatter rather than matter. It's like, if the two meet, the whole world... or universe... will explode or something. I can still picture the guy in the story, but can't remember his name.

Of course, the word Christ, or Christus, was around long before Jesus came on the scene. Originally, it was the name for a stone phallus on which virgin brides impaled themselves so that their first born sons would be sons of God, not human. It's why customs leaving all the money in the estates passed on the the first born sons for so long... it's gets weird. Even during Jesus' time, many who studied spirituality were referred to as "Christs." So, you know, it's not odd someone came up with a concept of antichrist either, really.

[IrisRavenstar]

That Star Trek episode was #20, and the characters name was Lazarus!

I did a search on "Star Trek" + original series + twins + antimatter, and about 4,000 items came up... lol. Isn't the internet great?

[IrisRavenstar]

Hi Hazel,

You might consider that the Book of Revelation says that anyone who reads the words of that book aloud is blessed. I wondered about that one day, and suddenly realized the book is full of puns, which can only be *heard!"

Like: The A-Bomb a Nation of Desolation... which means perhaps we should all have been a-running years ago, when the U.S. decided to retaliate for the bombing of Pearl Harbor by dropping nuclear weapons on Nagasaki and Hiroshima in Japan.

Like, when Daniel read the handwriting on the wall, if he'd only spoken English, he'd have seen that "Mene mene tekel upharsin" was an interlingual pun for "Meanie, Meanie, to kill a person" and saved the king from throwing all those people, including him, into fiery furnaces, maybe, and saved him spending all that time being a cow in a pasture eating grass.

There are LOTS of ways to read things other than just your way, Hazel, and a bit of history and background and recognition of symbol and wordplay (why do you think Jesus taught in parable, or made jokes about Peter being the rock (petra in Greek)?) and my God, even a sense of HUMOR, help you get the message better.

This group is primarily for dreamwork, though all topics are supposed to be allowed in this chit-chat area. I don't believe you have the right to say only people with your mindset, or who read in your literalist way, get to post on any given thread. What would be the point in that?

Originally Posted by hazelflame

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,....

[inphanta]

I really wasn't going to touch this, but I feel it may be worth sharing what I believe to be true about this whole thing. What I believe is based on what I have come to realise, know and understand about the world around me. It is also worth nothing that I was raised a Cathloic, but my family converted to Christianity some years later. Now however, I do not consider myself a follower of any religion, but I am definitely spiritual. I do not believe that there is only one religion and one truth. The universe is way too complex for that. In essence, the only real, true path is that of love, but that is another issue entirely separate from this one.

Anyway, with regards to all this, end-time, stiff, I've heard it all before (most of my immediate family is still Christian and they talk about this all the time, believeing that these are the so-called "last days" on earth), but I do not believe it. I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but what I believe is based on how I've come to see things. Here are my thoughts.

It's going to be a long post.

- The Bible was written by fallible humans and is not the word of the creator of the universe. It has also been edited and translated countless times, therefore I believe that taking it as the literal word of God is extremely dangerous. It has also lead to countless misunderstandings throughout history. To think, there was even a time when Christianity blocked medical advancements such as anaesthetic for women in childbirth because they believed that trying to aid women in labour would be "flying in the face of God" by repealing the curse put on women in Genesis. This kind of thinking should illustrate why a dogmatic, literal interpretation of the Bible can cause problems.

- Jesus was Jewish, not a Christian. Christianity came about several years after his passing, yet Christians claim their religion to be the One True Path and that all who do not conform to it will be tortured in hell for all eternity by a God who actually loves them. What they have in fact done is hijack Jesus' teaching with their own religion (which was unified under Rome for political convenience) and used fear and deliberate misinformation coerce people into following it. However, when Jesus was talking about being "The way", he was referring to the path of love, not a particular theology, otherwise everyone would need to be Jewish to be "saved". Also, Jesus' teachings are also very similar to those of Buddha, another enlightened teacher who came to help evolve humanity.

- There is not such thing as Satan in the classic sense. It would make no sense for a being of infinite love to create and leave a totally malevolent being running amok causing havok. Instead, we create out own devils. "Satan" is really the ego aspect of ourselves left unchecked. This also means that "demonic" and "evil" phenomena are also a part of ourselves. The lower bestly nature (hence "The Beast") This is incredibly difficult for a lot of people to accept, so it is projected to a third party; in this case "Satan".

- There is no literal calendar date for the world's end. If the world ends at all, it will be our doing through our own self-serving "satanic" behaviour. Christians thinking they'll be whisked away into the sky whilst the reaminder of the world perishes beneath them are, in my opinion living a deluded fantasy. Furthermore, if they really loved all humanity (as they should), they would not be thinking so selfishly, gleefully waiting for a day when all the wicked, unsaved people get roasted whilst they happily party in the sky.

- When the various books of the Bible were written, it was also believed that those were the last days, which means this end-time thing has been going on for centuries. All that is happend is that each successive generation continues to bend the facts of history and current events to fit what they want to believe. There are even so-called Christian-based organisations who wish to cause catastrophic events in the belief it will make the Messiah come quicker. These are clearly very dangerous people and it should make you afraid.

- All religions, in essence, when stripped of their respective doctines point to the same thing: love. Love is the only constant, the only thing that survives physical death. However, all religions are fallible because they are the product of humans, therefore neither is completely right or completely wrong, yet each (particular the major Abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam) claim absolute truth, which again is very dangerous.

- We are all connected. The dreamscape is a representation of how we are all connected to each other. This also means we are all in the same boat. There is no such thing as people who are lost and people who are saved. We all lost and we will one day all be "saved" (i.e. re-united to the universal source of life and love). We are all moving towards the same goal and we are all responsible for each other, this is why love and the way we treat other people is very important. This is what the concept of Karma alludes to. This is also why Jesus taught love for one's enemies.

- God is a being of unconditional love that is not defined by any particular religion. Heaven is a dimensional frequency of light and love, hell is a lower vibrational frequency devoid of both. It is a temporary realm of cleansing for souls that find themselves there through negative karma.

- Scriptual books such as the Bible, Koran, Hindu and Buddhist teachings etc need to be read and interpreted spiritually and not literally. The stories in the Bible should be treated as metaphors and parables rather than a literal telling of historical events. With that in mind, it becomes less important as to how "accurate" any specific stories are. Interpret the stories as you might say, dreams.

- When the Bible says God created us in his image, it is referring to the fact that all beings have a divine essence. What makes the difference is whether we choose to listen to it. The conscience (basically what Christians call the Holy Spirit) is that divine essence of Self. It is that voice in the back of your head that you hear when you KNOW you've wronged another person. Again, some choose not to listen to it and let their lower nature take over, therefore deluding themselves. This suggests that what Christians call the unpardonable sin (the "sin against the Holy Spirit") is self delusion. It is only unpardonable inasmuch as the person does not realise the state they are in. This suggests that someone can be in hell whilst being here on earth, and not even know it.

What this all means is that we are responsible for ourselves and each other. Every soul is important to its source and is loved equally even if the actions comitted by our ego selves may not be compatible. Again, we are all it this together and we all have to help each other find our wa back to the light.

There are people involved in satanic activity on earth, but again this is not devil worship - it's more about the worship of self and physicality. I am of the opinion that human organisations like Freemasons are involved in this. A lot of the upper echelons are made up of very old men who believe they can cheat physical death and create "heaven on earth" on their terms. Again, self-serving.

So there you have it. Some of it is tangential, Irealise, but it all alludes to the main point, which is that there is no need to fear a particular End of Days scenario dreamt up to suit the agenda of a particular man-made religion. If you don't like what is happening in the world around you, then it is up to YOU to make a difference. I feel the biggest problem with the Christian End of Days thinking is that it encourages fatalism. They sit there passively watching things unfold thinking it to be the will of God, thus going towards creating a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. In truth, everyone is capable of changing the world, but it has to start with yourself, and can only extend one person at a time. This means that nothing is set in stone. A successful prophecy is one that does not come to pass.

[Briarcliffe]

Hazelflame,

You need to quit doing this. You are taking something that needlessly divides Christians and airing it out in public.

Just be ready to give an explanation for the hope that you have and be ready to meet the Lord when he comes - whenever that is. Discussing Pre-Post-Mid... is pointless. As long as Christians are doing what they are supposed to be doing, everything will be OK. You are entitled to you well-defined opinion.

In the meantime, there are some great online forums where you can share this type of thing to your hearts content, with like minded people.

Keep looking up!

[IrisRavenstar]

Dear Inphanta,

Thank you for that well-thought-out and well-written post! You must be a writer!

As for the question in your sigfile, try this for a response:

;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.> ;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;

"When all is said and done, how do we not know but that our own
unreason may be better than another's truth? For it has been warmed
on our hearths and in our souls, and is ready for the wild bees of
truth to hive in it, and make their sweet honey. Come into the world
again, wild bees, wild bees!"

-- William Butler Yeats

;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.> ;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;<.,.>;+*+;

Apparently, Yeats was not afraid of bees.

The one thing I don't understand in your post, is the reference to conspiracy theories re: Freemasons. I see them around from time to time, and always find them puzzling, because I grew up with a stepfather who was a Mason. My ex's father was a Shriner, and my ex was a Mason for awhile, ultimately dropping it over the issue that they would not allow blacks to join at that time, though I think they do now. It's always been a WASP group, really, White Anglo-Saxon Protestant, no minorities, no Catholics, even. But I was a Rainbow Girl as a teen, and I feel that it set me on a path of a more mystical spirituality, and a more open-minded spirituality, than I would have had if I'd only based my spirituality on what I learned in a Baptist Church, which I attended with a friend's family. Mine weren't really into religion at all. My view of my dad as a Mason was really more like it was a men's club than anything else, though I know they did rituals, but the rituals were more mystical and ceremonial, though not related to a specific religion. I don't remember any plots to overtake the world or anything like that. Rainbow Girls was fun... we wore long gowns for our meetings, and I remember had to go through a sort of hazing when we first joined, which included being told we had to walk through worms, which were actually cold spaghetti... LOL! I just never get it when I hear the conspiracy buffs go on about Freemasons. My dad would go out with friends after meetings to a place called the Rathskellar, which had a steam room and he loved that. Then he'd come home, all relaxed and I think for him, it was just a big change of pace from commercial fishing, and much needed male bonding.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, Catholics ARE Christians, they even consider themselves the original ones, with the Apostolic Succession which they feel is necessary. To them, the Protestants are the fakes, though the Anglicans, and their offshoots the Episcopalians, claim to be part of the Apostolic Succession too. To Protestants, Mormons are the fakes. ARGH! It does rather go on and on! Personally, I think Gnostics came before Catholics, and were murdered as heretics by them, and we lost a lot because of it, though much resurfaced in the past century. It's crazy though, the fighting over differences instead of learning to share the similarities... it's in the similarities that I think we find the real truth, and that goes beyond even all these Christian sects, and to other religions as well. I learn a lot from studying other religions, and even gain more insight into Christian teaching from it. I puzzle over why people WANT to bring on the End of the World.

Again, thank you... I agree with pretty much the rest of what you wrote!

[IrisRavenstar]

LOL... it's thundering outside, so I've got to shut down, but I think Jesus suggested shaking the dust off one's sandals and getting out of Dodge, to paraphrase, if one felt one wasn't being listened to. On the other hand, I'd hate to see that, really, as I think one learns more if they listen to people who are NOT all like-minded. But if she does want to go, I have suggested "DreamsfromHim" on yahoogroups. They don't allow any views other than Evangelical ones. See you all later if the storms pass through!

Originally Posted by Briarcliffe

Hazelflame,

You need to quit doing this. You are taking something that needlessly divides Christians and airing it out in public.

Just be ready to give an explanation for the hope that you have and be ready to meet the Lord when he comes - whenever that is. Discussing Pre-Post-Mid... is pointless. As long as Christians are doing what they are supposed to be doing, everything will be OK. You are entitled to you well-defined opinion.

In the meantime, there are some great online forums where you can share this type of thing to your hearts content, with like minded people.

Keep looking up!