Spirit Entering Body at Birth?

[IrisRavenstar]

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone here has ever had any dreams regarding when the spirit enters the body, like at birth, or sooner? I ask because a few days ago, I woke from hearing a voice say, "That's going to be my gramma!" It was a cute little-girl voice, and I kind of wondered if it was the grandchild I was expecting any day. Well, Savannah Hope was born a few days later, on June 3, at 3:00 a.m., and is doing great, and healthy! But the dream left me puzzled, like she was still in spirit form, but getting ready to enter the body at birth.

Doesn't that open up all kinds of questions? Really... like... is the whole abortion issue nothing but hot air after all, if the spirit doesn't even enter the body until the body is born and known to be viable? This really puzzled me, made me think about this a lot during the past few days.

I've had a lot of time to think, being laid up with salmonella, emptying out at both ends at once sometimes... yuck... (don't eat storebought meringue cookies that are sticky in the middle, probably undercooked, or maybe it was the Thai peanut sauce... dunno! So tossed 'em both!). Maybe it was sympathy for my granddaughter's mother going through birth pangs or something. More likely a chance to jump start a return to healthy eating, methinks! I'd really gotten off track, so decided to be grateful instead of pissed off.

Anyway, I'm fine now, my granddaughter is fine, and I'd love to hear if anyone else ever had any dreams related to the advent of a new baby, or hearing their spirit voice prior to birth! It was a new one for me!

[NfoJunkie]

I can see how it would make sense that when a baby is split from it's mother could be when it takes on it's own separate life. My earliest memory is more like a photograph in my mind, of sitting from a high perspective (high chair at the kitchen table), looking down at the floor. Years later when we were preparing to move back into the same house I was born in (literally), and I described the kitchen tiles & wallpaper to my mom, asking if that's what the kitchen looked like, she said, "Yes, but I don't know how you could remember that. We left that house when you were a year old." I have a photographic memory, so I'm not surprised it's merely a photograph in my mind.

Our minds seem to start out blank, and maybe they don't even start running until we become a "separate being". I know technology & brain scans have revealed some interesting things about dreams (e.g. as dreams and memories play through our minds, it's as if we are literally experiencing the events), I wonder if a babies mind thinks it's own thoughts, the same thoughts as the mother, or thinks nothing at all while being formed in the womb. It seems like they have their own thoughts because babies kick and move in the womb, but maybe that's just a LONG dream in the little mind being formed, guided by the mother's conscious thoughts & memories, & the baby doesn't begin to think for itself until it begins using it's own ability to breathe, see, hear, etc..

[IrisRavenstar]

Thanks NfoJunkie,

That is cool, to have a memory that far back. My biological father and my mother were divorced when I was a year old, and I went and lived with my paternal uncle and his wife for awhile, and then when my mom remarried, I went to live with her and my stepfather, and I have no memories at all prior to moving in with them, right near my third birthday, except one which also had a high chair, and I remember green trim on a white house and a white fence. That's it! I don't know where it might have been, and neither did my mom, so it must have been something from the time with my uncle.

I've always felt that gap might be odd, but maybe it was because I was separated from my mom a lot then. She was very young, only seventeen, when I was born, and my bioligical father was just a few years older, and was in the military and came home from WWII with what we'd now term Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, though I don't think it had that name yet. It was hard on them to deal with all that, Im sure. I think all that being shuffled around left me with some attachment problems in some ways though. I tend to hold myself at a distance more than I really wish to. Odd, that something that happens at such a young age, can have so much impact on us!

I was lucky that I adored my stepfather. He was a commercial fisherman and an artist, and he allowed me to watercolor at his side when he painted, and follow him around when he did other things, like mending nets or building bookcases. My mom was great too, so life got much nicer when we moved to Snug Harbor... real name of the town!

I believe that we are all spiritual beings, in physical bodies, so what I'm getting at is when does the spirit enter the physical body. It's kind of the opposite of Near Death Experience (NDE), I guess... we know from those that people's spirits can leave the body, but no one seems to know definitively when it enters. That's why there is so much argument over abortion rights and such, and why the church is so against abortion, but what if they're wrong? What if there is only an empty physical vessel there until the spirit enters the body around the time of birth? It would be good to know which is true, right?

I think the spirit would be the animating force so to speak that gets the mind running! The Greek word "psyche" means mind/soul/spirit... all three! It also means butterfly, which is a symbol for rebirth or metamophosis. I think I really was hearing my granddaughter's spirit, as she sort of assessed who her new family was about to be!

And yes, it's pretty hard to tell if there's anything more than physical formation going on in the womb, with needed exercise for the little body.

It sure is something to think about... thanks for responding! I love to talk about the things that dreams often seem to simply IMPLY. I think they're there to make us think things through more for ourselves.

Well, gotta get off to bed! I'll be around tomorrow some more!

[Sowelu]

Hiya IrisRavenstar!

As with most ideas we ponder, the answer is far more all-inclusive than we initially assume. Difficult to answer, too, because of the myriad perspectives an entity can have.

There are all sorts of scenarios for Spirit entering human form. Like NfoJunkie, I have memory of family moments on earth before I was fully formed in the womb, "meeting" european relatives in my grandmother's living room though they only visited once and it was before I was born (my mother was pregnant with me)... but I also have memory of asking my mother if she would do me the honor of having me as her daughter, which she recalled as a dream she had about a year before I was conceived. (In other words, I chose her as my mother, and she agreed, and this all occurred before I was the me I was born and became in human form. So "I" know me as more than this human person.)

However I also have the distinct experience of still not yet being fully embodied, not fully spirit-invested into this human form and life, over 45 years later. So... the investment of spirit into matter is a constant, ongoing process, happening in every moment. Throughout my life I've been given dreams informing me of what aspect of The One Self I'm experiencing the integration of at the time, and even helpful hints about how to go about it. (Just as an FYI to anyone, btw, always it is feelings and emotions that are the key to opening to more of who we truly are.)

Remember time is an illusion, used by spirit-in-human-form for the purpose of stepping down the experience of Being to examine it minutely and in detail, for the edification and growth of Self. And of course once "in time", for the purpose of helping the human remember its way back to wholeness. So questions about the precise moment this or that did or will occur... depend on one's viewpoint. And even at the human level, there is no one answer, no one precise time all can agree on. Life is myriad with purpose, there is no one size fits all anything, in truth.

The questions human beings tend to ask about life are difficult for spirit to answer with any satisfaction to the human's need to understand. The human understanding of what life is, what we're doing here, who we actually are and what's really going on here... tends to be limited in ways that make understanding difficult at best. Deeper still than the illusion of time is the illusion of all of manifest Creation. Or death. Or many things that seem so real, tangible and irrefutable to the human awareness of life.

Most people will roll their eyes at this point and dismiss someone speaking of these things, because it just doesn't fit a nice box of understanding. But if one strives for the grandest view possible, the questions we tend to ask or things we tend to wonder about... will change. So I speak of these things, when I do, to offer a larger context from which to continue to ponder the question(s) for any/all who encounter the message. We each are here to discover our own wholeness and truth, and grasping the greatest true context of our lives is always helpful.

We can also choose to remind ourselves that absolutely all things are possible and the only limits reside within our own ability to perceive. This too will allow expansion of consciousness on our path of discovery.

There is always communication going on between that which seems to exist here in this realm, and all else in existence. Beings that are born here are not new to life, they are simply new to this incarnation. Yes, they communicate all the time with those here before they get here or before they're able to speak as tiny humans. They also communicate with those on "the other side of the veil" as infants and later (if they're not shut down)... as do we all, though we rarely recall most of it. What is spoken in words and consciously received is a very small portion of the vast amount communicated to and from us in every moment.

If I had your experience I'd count myself blessed to have been privy to a moment beyond the veil of forgetting, tapping a level of awareness of Being that is never disconnected, never truly separate from anything else, and able to commune with that which seems to be "not here yet". Perhaps your already utilized psychic abilities and your comfort with that type of facility in consciousness enabled this wonderful moment. Perhaps it's a portend of changes coming for you, too.

Children coming in these days will have (by design or plan) far less of a veil than those of us who have been here for a decade or more. Those children will be teachers for a good portion of humanity. As soon as she's able to communicate, your grandchild may tell you a thing or two about that moment you had.

Blessings!
Sowelu

[IrisRavenstar]

Hi Sowelu,

Wow! That is very cool to remember things from before you were born. I've read of people doing that with past life regressions, but not just remembering consciously and awake!

When you say not fully embodied, though, I wonder if you're speaking of the same thing I am, when I talked about not feeling I attach well to things, but then, reading your other posts, lovely channeling really! (I want to read it more carefully, so emailed it to myself for later), I wonder about that too, in that maybe it's because we aren't supposed to fully attach here... we're supposed to be *detached*, or as Jesus put it, "in the world, but not of the world." At some point, we need to recognize that about ourselves, I think. Or we just keep going rounds here, and don't graduate to there. Which isn't bad, necessarily, just not what I want at this point. I have had, really, enough of too many aspects of earth life, and wish for something new wholeheartedly!

I asked my guide one day about the Buddhist belief of "nonattachment", and he said it was the same as my perception of being in "objective observer mode." Really, it's healthier to be able to maintain an objective stance most of the time, rather than getting too emotionally caught up in everything that's going on around us.

I had a whole series of integration dreams a long time ago, where I was playing seven different characters, basically, and had to learn to get along with all of them during the dreams, even this one little tough teenaged black girl who was kind of like a hood character, a girl gang member who rode motorcyles and raised a ruckus. I remember her well! I called her **********. I first tried banishing her from the rest of myselves presence, and finally realized I had to accept and love her... she was the part who ultimately pulled me out of a serious clinical depression, because she never let me get away with accepting being a doormat. Once you learn to accept these parts of yourself that may not be what you think you are or should be, it's so much easier to start accepting others, for sure.

I've had other experiences relating to spirit entering and leaving the body. One was just last year. My dog Shaman, a Siberian Husky, developed severe
esophageal cancer. He was so sick! And often, he'd go lay in my craft room, to be off by himself (not his norm!), and I'd go in there, and I'd be really frightened he'd died already, because his eyes were so empty, I thought he was gone. They'd be open, but vacant. I would say his name and he wouldn't respond, until I pet him, and then he was back.

I had to have him euthanized, because I couldn't stand seeing him in so much pain. He was really sick from that, and on top of it in the process of diagnosing him, they'd done surgery on him to remove a ball from his stomach, a large hard black ball, that no one could figure out how he'd even swallowed, it was too big. Anyway, I agonized, but my guide said, "Why don't you let me decide on this?" So I did, and he was put down, and I immediately started having repeated dreams of Shaman sitting with his back to me, one dream after another, always with his back to me. At first, I thought it meant he was mad at me for having him put down, but then realized no, he was saying he was *coming back to me!* He wanted to come back. As soon as I connected that, he was in my dreams in a more interactive way, sitting in front of me to get petted, or facing me for a change. And I knew his spirit was okay.

Shortly after, I started dreaming of a small reddish-gold dog, and heard my guide say, "It won't be the same dog." I knew I was looking for a dog who looked different from Shaman, and was going to be smaller, and easier on my back to handle. Huskies love to pull, and I have back and neck injuries from a past auto accident, plus arthritis, so it got painful. Then I was actually told it was a girl and given the name Lily for her, and to go to the pet store, she was there. I went, and sure enough, there was the dog I'd dreamed! I knew she was my dog, and she knew me, and snuggled right into my shoulder on first contact, and she's been a charmer and I've been delighted.

At first though, I had a problem with the fact that Lily was actually born before Shaman died, and I couldn't understand how she could then BE Shaman. I think now that when I perceived him being out of body during those times when he was so ill, he was actually out there being Lily for awhile, getting used to the new body. Does that sound too farfetched? I mean this quite seriously. It's been a real experience!

There have been so many things that indicate she really is Shaman, but is also her own little feminine self, and it's opened up all sorts of possibilities in my mind.

So yes, the questions we ask are indeed difficult to answer, but paying attention to our dreams really often helps a great deal! I think they are there to give us a pathway out. The Second Coming of Christ is in dreams, in my opinion... where the Bible says:

"In the last days it well be, God declares
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams..." -- Acts 2:17

This is why Jesus said not to sit on the rooftops waiting for him... he's there... the Holy Spirit... right inside, in our dreams! And it's time we all wake up to that! We tend to look for all our answers outside, in a book, from a preacher or teacher or rabbi or guru, when really we can find the Holy Spirit, or Great Spirit, or whatever our individual understanding of God/dess is, right inside, and you are right, in our hearts! That is so key. I started waking up the day I heard a voice say: "God is lonely without you." Wow! I cried my eyes out over that. What a concept!

You said:

If I had your experience I'd count myself blessed to have been privy to a moment beyond the veil of forgetting, tapping a level of awareness of Being that is never disconnected, never truly separate from anything else, and able to commune with that which seems to be "not here yet". Perhaps your already utilized psychic abilities and your comfort with that type of facility in consciousness enabled this wonderful moment. Perhaps it's a portend of changes coming for you, too.

Oh, yes, I think it is all blessing, for sure! Sadly, she is 3,000 miles away from me, so I don't know when we'll meet, but I do feel something special about this little girl with the beautful name. I had not expected to have any biological granchildren, having already several step- and adopted- ones, and even one step-great grandchild, silly when I'm sixty two, really. So, this was a surprise baby. The first biological grandchild.

You also said:

"Children coming in these days will have (by design or plan) far less of a veil than those of us who have been here for a decade or more. Those children will be teachers for a good portion of humanity. As soon as she's able to communicate, your grandchild may tell you a thing or two about that moment you had. "

LOL... well, that would be something, for sure! Kids can be great that way, I know.

Thanks, Sowelu. I always enjoy your posts, when you do interpretations too, you seem very insightful! I will spend more time thinking about your channeling post, but at least want to say that is beautiful too! I may have more to say about it later, but want to do a couple of interpretations before I finish for the morning.

All best!

[IrisRavenstar]

Odd... I'll try the little black girl's name as two words without caps...

black berry

see if that comes through? It was all asterisks in my original post! As a name, it's one word with a capital B.

[Sowelu]

(((Hiya!)))

I don't think what you're pondering regarding Lily is farfetched at all. Though I do feel that there's likely more of a composite personality now. Shaman essence with something new and unique, as well. After all, it's about growth for all life that comes here, you know? And how wonderful that you get to have another wonderful companion. Dogs are such beautiful creatures!

Thanks so much, IrisRavenstar! Wonderful thread!

Blessings!
Sowelu

[IrisRavenstar]

Oh, yes, that is what I meant about her being her own little feminine self as well! She's a mommy to me, or tries to be... LOL! I get lovely toe massages with a tiny dog tongue. Clean too! Shaman, otoh, was my hiking buddy and protector from the wild things on our hiking trails. He'd find our way out of the woods if we got loss with his super nose. Seeing the masculine and feminine play out with them is fascinating too. But she also has his same food preferences even though I've tried to change a few. The only one I've been able to change was not giving her fish, because I prayed about why Shaman had gotten the esophageal cancer (he was only seven, very young!), and assumed he'd had acid reflux, and had an immediate dream of him vomiting up bunches of whole fish. I had given him a lot of salmon and tuna, so Lily is not getting those, as I also get acid reflux from the fatty fish, so get my Omega 3's from flax oil. She doesn't seem to miss it.

The first day I got her, I was watching her race around the house, and psychically heard a joyous feminine voice say, "I love being in this small body! I can run in the house and no one scolds me!" I thought, wow, I'm losing it, or my guide is teasing. But then I got a dream of a book, and on the cover was Lily and the title, "I Voice Woman." LOL... she also expected me to throw stuffed toys the same direction I threw them for Shaman, so it took me awhile to get her to stop running off the wrong way. She's so small, I don't need to throw them into a different room for her.

It's an adventure, for sure, and bringing a lot of new thoughts and insights. Right now, she's in her crate for a time-out, as her one bad habit is barking at everything that moves outside the front living room window, which is where she goes when I get online. That's her tv, I think. I can take only so much of that! Otherwise, she's perfect. Soft, fluffy, cuddly, sweet. I couldn't ask for a better companion animal, for sure.

Thanks for not thinking it's crazy... I'm a little in awe sometimes.

[karmicresponse]

Dear irisravenstar: I dont mean to be hypercritical about your descritption about the spirit entering the form of your grandaughter. As a matter of fact its cause for great celebration. However you are completely way off on the mechanics of it all. I,m kind of a stickler for people presenting off the wall guesswork for facts. I happen to have quite a bit of reading in these areas. The light being or spirit both enters and exits an endocrine gland called the pineal gland at the top and center of the head. From the day of conception it takes the pineal approximately 1 1/2 months to form well enough for the spirit to enter. The spirit does not wait till birth for its entry and I would sincerely doubt it waits until all bodily functions to stop (or death) to exit either. After all if we want to send some messages to the universe as our spirit leaves we would want to give it some energy for connection purposes. Its kind of nice you had established a frequency match with the grandaughters spirit early on This pineal gland is very fascinating as it is involved in most any mental vision processes. Folks go to great lenghts to obtain certain plant species from brazil to artificially stimulate this gland also. Generally speaking when the pineal gland is stimulated by chemical, physical or emotional means it produces a heavy duty chemical called DMT or di-methyl-triptoline and tlepathics cannot be obtained without that flow. By chemical means the alocsia plan t leaf is used. Through cuurent history two great people were known to have mastered telepathic states. Those two were Adolf Hitler and Princess Di. Both of them had penchats for colonics or cleaning the large intestines. The logic is fairly simple the water simply was able to flow from the large intestine up through the fibrous placque tracks to the head. The head seeiming mor misture in a few minutes time than it had in decades was able to reactivate the pineal gland which usually dries out and becomes inactive by the age of 6 years old. The aging process is basically the dehyration of body tissue and it begins as early. as 5 or 6 years old. The thing about being in a telepathic state is that a person can be very convincing as the brain is able to transmit radio wave energies whether a human is using sound signals or not. Which is exactly how Adolf Hitler got so much distance on information presented to his nation which was based on total falsehoods. There are hundreds of variatins in which telepathics can be employed. From my genetics I have inherited what is known as P-K or psycho-kinetic abilities. No icanot bend spoons in front of peoples eyes. However I can cause or precipate more long range events to occur. Obviously there are universal laws prohibiting these gifts to ber used for personal gain and neither would I want to be in the company of people who would use spiritual gifts for personal gain either. However I am quite sensitive to social injustices. If i .. observe a group of people badly or injustly treated over a long time span I shall bring a swift and just rsolution right out of thin air to correct matters. Thats why I use the name karmicresponse as a log in.

[IrisRavenstar]

Uh, huh... I'm really buying right into this karmicresponse, oh, yeah, it's totally making sense. NOT! Couching things in pseudo-scientific hogwash doesn't make them true. And if you're so great at personally bringing karmic resolution out of thin air, why is the world such a mess? I also don't use hallucinogenics to be psychic or telepathic. I'm telepathic without doing anything at all to cause it, even after trying NOT to be! I wan't allowed not to be; I had to learn to make friends with the gifts, because they are a natural part of all of ours eventual growth/evolution. It's our nature, and no one is special because of it; we learn when we're ready, just as a child learns to walk and talk when they're ready. Or as my guide put it in a dream, accept the pink flowering tree he brought me, pink being for the feminine/intuitive gifts. I actually then received two real pink flowering trees in real life as a synchronistic gift from my ex and his wife, which was funny! One is a pink dogwood in my back yard, the other in front of the house, a pink weeping cherry tree. Both are now becoming quite large and flowered beautifully this spring.

I have telepathic experiences all the time. Some involve long conversations awake as well as in dreams.

Karma is not yours or mine or any of ours here to mete out. What we should learn from seeing karma happening around us is that if we make good choices, we bring good things to ourselves. If we make bad choices, we bring bad things to ourselves. And that is all the control any of us have karmically. Others are not ours to manage.

Such nonsense!