just another perspective on dream analyis

[day1ventura]

I believe that when analyzing a dream, the feelings we experience while dreaming, are as relevant to the dream as present day understanding of words, and there symbolic meanings. I also think that dreams access a primordial place within, where the names and meaning of things bear little relevance to today's understanding of words. For what it's worth I believe that the dreamer holds the only valid interpretation; However, I appreciate input from others about a dream. Sometimes a different perspective can aid in the brain storming process and help bring clarity to the dream.
Just my opinion.

[Jennings]

Spot on, Day1Adventurer! Feeling does seem to be crucial; does anyone dream without some emotional input; possibly, but I wouldn't think that it occurs often. It seems obvious that dreaming has a primitive genesis and language (rather than words per se) appear to be irrelevent as you suggested. The dreamer does possess the only valid understanding of the dream, or rather should, as it is about the dreamer's life but, sometimes, guidance is required to help understand those pictorial images.

If I can take the liberty of describing a dream from my own past which had a profound emtional impact. "I was driving through an urban area to a public arena but felt detached from this event yet the confusing point is that I also felt part of it. On arrival at the arena I parked my car in the underground carpark that had a shopping precinct around it. I next recall returning to the carpark to find, to my alarm and dismay, that my car was missing. I had also notice that about two to three cars further along from mine was an old well maintained Jaguar saloon where the bay was also empty. All other bays had cars parked in them and in the arena above I could hear the spectator's cries as they watched whatever event it was. I enquired at the retail outlets regarding my missing car but no one could help. The Jaguar car seemed to have suffered the same fate as mine. The only option remaing was to walk home but it had been years since I did this and I recognised that I should know my way yet felt insecure. Nonetheless, I started on the journey back and I recognised the route's familarity and I knew that I had to travel it yet I was so uncertain, even in old familar territory, of what was ahead of me and I could not quite recall what it was like. I felt bewildered, sad, and lonely".

At the time I knew what the dream entailed but before explaining it, as it contains feeling, as far as I can now recollect it, would anyone care to explain it. It's meaning is self-explanatory but it may not be evident to all.

To assist in its interpretation here is a verse of a poem that is written in figuartive speech. It is not connected to the dream but its meaning might be readily understood by those who appear to find difficulty in understanding the allegory of dream.

"The road I trod through life was of a slower pace.
Some cobbles met I found were hard beneath my feet
but one day when love called my name
the World at once became a smoother street".
(Lesley Park)

I am beginning to think we should start a course here on lessons in dream analysis. We may even consider providing a doctorate degree at its conclusion which would be quite legal and valid.

[day1ventura]

I was attempting to compare the difference between primordial conscienceless to present day languages. moreover; the symbols that a word in any of the different languages might represent. Primordial conscienceless is linked with DNA...therefore there are no words. To clarify, I did not say that words were absolutely irrelevant, as you stated. My hypothesis is .....if dreams do take place in the primordial conscienceless, then how can dreams be analyzed with a dictionary? The dreamer does possess the only valid understanding of the dream...this is an absolute....Dreams are personnel. whether or not they possess the ability to access the meaning of the dream is left to be seen.... the information is in the brain...or maybe in the DNA. Of course, others can help in the unlocking process as I stated.
Please remember my disclaimer.....my thoughts, my feelings, my opinion, & no facts. Hope I have conveyed my thoughts clearer.....see what I mean about words? LOL ....
now to your dream....
just my sense of it (the preceding 5 words are are my disclaimer)

It is my perception that first and foremost the feelings and thoughts you were experiencing, set the tone of the dreams meaning for you. I believe that every thing in a dream (with the exception of prophetic dreams) pertains to self. My sense was that there was something in your life that you needed to let go of or had let go of. It was a battle for you (hence the feelings of insecurity, bewilderment, and the arena) I sensed a desire for you to be your true self (walking the familiar road back home) I also sense that you were questioning your decision (confusion and insecurity).

In my own life it's has been my experience, that there have been times I have held on to unhealthy relationships, unhealthy attitudes as well as unhealthy actions (always to my detriment). At different times in life I would have moments of clarity, and instinctively know that I needed to change something about me, or my life. Still, change is scary, even change for the better, because it is that unknown variable being factored in. What I discovered was that I had to grieve the loss of of whatever, and anything, I let go of (perhaps your feeling of sadness and loneliness). If you have walked through an emotional fear I applaud you, as did the spectators in the arena.

Now I would like take the liberty of asking for your input on a dream of mine:

First, let me start by saying that this dream was in color, vivid, very detailed, and I was never fearful:

I am at a huge dam with a man who is an archaeologist of sorts (for lack of a better word) of rare and unusual animals. We are at the top of the dam overlooking where they release water into the lake. There is a metal rail, with a platform attached that travels at super speed along side of the water spill, into the lake. I step on to the platform and ride it down (something my awaking self would never do! Yet in this dream, it felt exhilarating and thrilling). I get out of the lake, and step onto the bank to see the man dragging the lake looking for something. He pulls out the skull of a Rhino, and seems disappointed that it is not as rare or unusual as he would have liked (I am fascinated by the details of the skulls and I want it).

We are now waking though a jungle and come upon a house. We go in the house where there are a few other people (male and female, I know none). I see hundreds of snakes of all different sizes, shapes, patterns, and colors (I feel confident, but the other people are frightened). I tell everyone to let the snakes move as they please and to be very still and they will not hurt or bite them. A beautiful silver snake begins to move up my left arm, to my chin, then past my mouth. The snake pulls its’ head back, looks at me, and we kiss (I sense that it is a pet, and I feel it needs protecting from some of the bigger snakes). I go into a different room and see a bed with lots of smaller snakes on it. I lie down on the bed and go to sleep (I had a feeling of well being).

Allow me to explain the sensations and thoughts I experienced in what is to follow:

I feel as if I am having an out of body experience (in my ND dream, inside of my ST dream) and it feels as if I am experiencing real-time I am seeing things unfold around me yet I know that I am asleep with the snakes. in the other room.

I am watching the man chasing after a huge snake (I get the impression that he wants to kill it). He is in a room with water on the floor, a fence, metal shelves, and downed electrical wires all over the place. The man loses his balance and falls against the fence. There are sparks flying everywhere and there is this bright illumination all about (I know the man is being electrocuted, and I am profoundly sad; however, I cannot bring myself to look away, the sparks and illumination are extraordinary. As I watch all this I ask my self, “how can I be seeing this, when I know I’m sleeping on the bed with the snakes in the other room?). The man is now skeleton and ashes (I also had a feeling that all is as it should be).

When I woke, I felt like I had been dreaming for hours, it was quite intense; yet, I had a sense of well being.

[unclesirbobbyrobson]

I think you are exactly right. Dreams can only truly be interpreted by the dreamer. Its extremely difficult to interpret other peoples dreams.

But my best results are wuith people who have a diary. To me dreams are very much about the here and now. They capture ourt feelings - exactly the sort of feelings that we put in diaries. The here today and gone tommorow moods. Of course if something really important and pressing is on our minds then we may dream abut that.
---------------------------------------
In many cases it is more accurate to say that a dream has no real message. Dreams do mean something but when understood they simply represent thoughts that you are already aware of. The dreams symbolise your own views but in pictures and images. It could be that the snake in your dream represents the fear that some problem will strike again(a fear that your boss will pick on you). Each symbol represents day to day emotions and fears and the way they interact can also provide additional clues as to what real life situations are being played out in your mind. Understanding such dreams will not usually tell you anything you already know. But it is interesting to know how your mind works.

Try the following webpages as they help show you how to analyse dreams.

Dream symbolism and dream dictionary interpretation - How to interpret dreams
Dream symbolism - How to use dream symbols
A dream dictionary that explores the variety of meanings in a dream symbol

This webpage shows you some example dreams

Dream interpreting - the police and security forces and their symbolic meaning

[dantheman]

I also agree. There is something deep within us the works the images of dreams, myths and symbols. Chickens will run for cover if the shadow of a hawk is projected on them, even if they have never seen a hawk or been attacked by one. Something is hard wired as part of the survival instinct.

Writing stuff in a dream journal without editing or trying to add comments or spin is the best way to preserve the feeling of the dream. When speaking we all put in hints and clues with our word choices.

Poets and musicians also deliberatly create feelings and images with their choice of words. The most popular songs are ones that can resonate with many people in the same way. I have never "shot a man in Reno just to watch him die", but what an unsettling feeling. Or Alex Rose welcoming you to the jungle, no thanks, but I can't avert my eyes when he shows you the scene.

Interesting topic!

[Athanor]

Since the forum apparently will accept replies that are only of a fairly short length at a time, I’ve had to divide my overall reply into several shorter ones. I hope you don’t mind.

Another vast perspective on dreams that you might like to explore is the one created by Carl Jung and his adherents. Your ideas about dreams seem to mesh in some ways with the Jungian approach, so you possibly could find a sympathetic space in their overall methodology.

Here are a few quotations that briefly illustrate some aspects of the Jungian view:

“Since dream images make no sense in ordinary terms, people dismiss them as ‘weird’ or meaningless, but actually, dreams are completely coherent. If we take the time to learn their language, we discover that every dream is a masterpiece of symbolic communication…

We may compare a dream to a screen on which the unconscious projects its inner drama. We see there the various inner personalities that make up much of our total character, the dynamics among the forces that make up the unconscious…They take the form of images, and the interplay of the dream images gives us an exact representation of those inner dynamics that go on inside us.”

Robert Johnson, “Inner Work”.


“I was never able to agree…that the dream is a ‘façade’ behind which its meaning lies hidden – a meaning already known but maliciously, so to speak, withheld from consciousness. To me, dreams are a part of nature, which harbors no intention to deceive, but expresses something as best it can, just as a plant grows or and animal seeks its food as best it can.”

Carl G. Jung, “Memories, Dreams, Reflections”


“Dreams are a major thoroughfare to the unconscious psyche which…is vastly larger than consciousness. If we don’t pay attention to them, we limit our knowledge of the psyche to the relatively small segment that is conscious.

Do all dreams have meaning? We cannot prove that they do, but many people spontaneously record or tell their dreams; to them it seems self-evident that dreams have meaning. Moreover, psychotherapists and other workers with dreams have found meaning in nearly all of those studied. Failure to find a dream’s meaning is probably the dreamer’s failure, not the dream’s.”

Mary Ann Mattoon, “Jung and the Human Psyche: An Understandable Introduction”


“What excited me most when I first began to listen to my dreams was this sense that I was in touch with a great mystery. Something powerful seemed to be at work in my dreams, something that seemed to possess a wisdom and purpose beyond my conscious mind.

To be sure…special expertise is necessary for in-depth analysis of dreams, and, in cases of emotional or mental disturbance, the guidance of a trained analyst is required. But most normal people, who are able to cope realistically with everyday life, can gain fresh insight into themselves through a laymen’s approach to dream interpretations.”

George R. Slater Ph.D., “Bringing Dreams to Life”


“In interpreting dreams, it is important never to feel that the dream has been exhausted. At best one can find a useful, current meaning to the dream, but even this may be modified in the light of subsequent dreams, for dream interpretation involves a continuing dialogue between the ego and the unconscious…

In the Jungian view, dreams are continually functioning to compensate and complement (a milder form of compensation) the ego’s waking view of reality.”

James A. Hall M.D., “Jungian Dream Interpretation”

“Why should we look at dreams at all?...Dreams help reveal to ourselves the hidden parts of our personalities of which we are usually unaware. This revelation – for that is how is usually feels – has in turn, a profound effect on our characters, so much so that it could almost be said that we know only half the truth about ourselves, and our dreams help us to meet the other half.”

Donald Broadribb, “The Dream Story”


To explore the images of a dream, one requires access to reliable books on symbols such as “A Dictionary of Symbols” by J.E. Cirlot, “The Herder Symbol Dictionary” etc. The vast majority of “dream dictionaries” are of no use because they lack flexibility, defining symbols rigidly. Also, one can’t distinguish between fairly accurate meanings and many more that are mostly based on superstitious belief and which are therefore off the mark.

One exception to the rule is “A Dictionary of Dream Symbols” by Eric Ackroyd. He also succinctly sums up some ideas about the meaning in dreams:

“Every image that comes up in a dream means something, but the same image may mean different things for different people or for the same person at different times in his or her life.

More often that not, the people, places, objects and events in your dreams represent parts of yourself: feelings, fears, desires, attitudes and so on. You may not be consciously aware of these and one of the main functions of dreams is to make you aware of these hidden parts and to give them your attention.”

[Athanor]

The Jungian approach allows that there are dream motifs that are fairly consistent in meaning but the dreamer’s thoughts, feelings and memories about each image are crucial in finding an accurate overall interpretation. The context of the dream also includes the dreamer’s overall background and current situation. Also important is what was happening a day or two before the dream, whether the dreamer has been wrestling with a certain problem for awhile, or whether some important life milestone had recently occurred. So in spite of the lack of this context for your dream, here are a few ideas about its possible meaning.

Like a play, a dream usually establishes a time and place right off. Here we are at a dam apparently in the middle of a jungle during the day. Perhaps recent events have constellated this inner “location” that seems related to the idea of the instinctual life (jungle, and water which often symbolizes the emotions).

As in a play, characters are introduced, in this case yourself and a trained scientist although later a few other unknown people appear. This suggests the idea that this “location” in your psyche may need “research” and detailed study.

His area of study being animals supports the idea that the dream is dealing chiefly with examining your relationship with the instincts.

Perhaps there is a hint of a problem in this regard since the scientist is apparently interested only in “dead” animals, that is, there may be a growing tendency in your psyche to view the instincts only as some kind of “interesting artefact” in a way.

The dam, the properly functioning spillway and the efficiently operating platform may be reflecting how an ego presence (man-made dam etc.) is important when dealing with the instinctive side of life (river, jungle). However like most dream symbols, the negative aspect of a dam is perhaps being suggested as well: vast areas of natural life would have been flooded and cut off by the creation of the lake that would exist behind the dam. The fact there is also a lake in front of the dam may further emphasize the possible disruption in connection with natural instincts.

So the dilemma being perhaps explored by the dream might lie in this basic image of the dam which has disrupted the natural flow of emotions and instinctive reactions albeit for some useful ends, e.g. electric power that can be uniformly distributed for day to day life, i.e. energy made available to the ego in a controlled way.

The fact that you are exhilarated by the rapidly moving platform might be the dream’s way of showing how you are understandably swept up by an efficiently operating ego position at this time. The image of you enjoying something that you wouldn’t do in outer life could contain the idea of compensation, that is, you may not be conscious enough of how much you currently enjoy ego “control” over things.

Dreams choose their images very specifically, so there are likely certain associations that you have with a rhinoceros which you should explore by jotting down spontaneous thoughts, feelings and memories that come to mind about the image of the skull. One tip is to not let these connections wander too far from the dream image itself. Just concentrate on the skull image for example until various associations tail off, then you can go on to the next image.

However, another Jungian method used to elucidate a symbol is to study how various cultures have viewed over the centuries the object or being that’s pictured in the dream. That’s because the source of dreams, stories, myths, ideas, beliefs etc. etc. is the same, that is, they all come from the psyche, so that the connections seen in outer society can have a relevance to an individual’s dream.

The problem arises in paring down the often contradictory meanings attached to a given object or animal and deciding which one most appropriately expands the meaning for the dreamer in question.

One aspect of the rhinoceros is of course its great size and enormous power. The idea of “power” is also implicit in the image of the dam and its likely use as a supplier of electrical “power”. In this approach, the image of the rhinoceros might tend to represent in your dream a vital instinctive force that can be unstoppable and ruthless, possibly a single-minded power drive that you may be too unconscious of (rhino is “dead”, under water, i.e. hidden in the unconscious).

The scientist who “classifies” animals might symbolize a way that you move through life, that is, by using mostly thinking to orientate yourself. Again, showing you very interested in the rhino skull in contrast to the scientist’s reaction may be an attempt by the dream to compensate your conscious attitude and have you turn your attention to a mostly unconscious aspect of yourself.

The fact that it’s a skull as opposed to a leg bone etc. could be emphasizing the “head” and “thinking” coupled with outer sensations that might be the source of the ego feeling “powerful” underneath. You may like to read “Personality Types” by Daryl Sharp to learn more about the Jungian ideas related to typical ways that people orientate themselves vis a vis the inner and outer world.

[Athanor]

As here, dreams often carry on into a second half where the basic theme is explored further usually leading to a climax. Here you’re right in the jungle and the house contains many snakes. This may represent an approach that is far from your normal one, that is, being face to face as it were with deep instinctive realities.

Although there are countless symbolical meanings attached to snakes, at root they usually tend to symbolize one’s deepest fears, those almost uncontrollable emotions that arise from the brain stem and spinal cord whose structure mimics the appearance of a snake and is the remnant of our reptilian ancestors.

Snakes are also symbolic of energy itself, of force pure and simple. This is based on analogy, going back to our reptilian past. This basic untamed energy is still “remembered” or present in the body, mostly through the brain stem and spinal cord that control “automatic” systems in the body.

That’s why snakes can then come to symbolize many other things, based on the context. For example, they have been viewed as symbols of immortality because they shed their skins, apparently living forever by doing that, or as dangerous because of their fangs etc., each of these representing some aspect of “energy”.

Depending on your overall conscious outlook, the dream could be encouraging you to continue an attitude of acceptance of deeper level instincts for example, or it could be showing how you SHOULD have a close and accepting relationship to them.

Going to sleep would tend to symbolize that you may often be unconscious of how another aspect of your unconscious, the scientist, sometimes may ravage your instinctual life. You may have to “get outside yourself”, your usual way of acting, in order to perceive this fact more clearly.

Generally, the scene in the other room likely symbolizes how dangerous it is (loose live wires, water, metal conductors) to go against deep instincts (trying to kill the snake). The man is indeed electrocuted and this usually would symbolize the death of an outworn attitude. Since you are depicted as being both sad and accepting of this fate, perhaps this is a sign of being willing to give up some habitual way of acting that could tend to slow your overall self development.

Again the implicit warning might be that if this isn’t done, then inner energies could tend to turn against you in some way. For example, a person can be plagued with strong intractable emotions such as anger, boredom, listlessness, or with physical symptoms such as headaches, greater susceptibility to illnesses, or a person could be more susceptible to serious medical conditions, e.g. heart trouble.

Since the rhino is known not to see very well at all but to have an extremely sensitive sense of smell, it could be that a partial shift is required toward using intuition (sniffing out things) and evaluating them with more feeling (“hot” jungle).

However, since adequate background information about you is missing, these ideas may not fit your personal situation very well, but I hope that at least some of these comments will help in eventually unravelling the personal message of your dream.

[Athanor]

Here is a brief summary of how a Jungian orientated analyst would approach a dream:

1) The dream is recorded completely including any “irrelevant” details that the dreamer may feel can be omitted. Images are described as accurately as possible, e.g. “A red sports car sped by out of control and then disappeared” instead of “I saw a car go by”. The dreamer’s recent experiences are recorded, and the overall life situation of the dreamer is determined.

2) Personal associations to each image/event in the dream are carefully gathered. These will likely show certain interconnected themes that point to the underlying situation being commented on. The images and events are reviewed as motifs that usually have certain symbolic attributes attached to them, e.g. the dreamer driving a car often means that he/she has full control of his/her own energies. However, nothing should normally be assumed regarding the meaning of an image without reviewing it in conjunction with the associations and life situation of the dreamer.

3) Unusual images that are outside the dreamer’s daily experience may be amplified and expanded on by reference to how various cultures have thought about and depicted them, e.g. talking animals, inhabited caves, images of gods and goddesses.

4) If appropriate for the dream in question, its structure may be examined by comparing it to a play (time, place, characters, exposition, development of the plot, culmination/crisis, solution) to help focus more clearly on the overall situation being depicted. If possible, the dream will be related to a series of other dreams that the dreamer has had.

5) The dream images are assessed to decide if they are primarily subjective (referring to the dreamer) or objective (referring to outer persons).

6) The main situation being commented on by the dream is determined. The dreamer’s overall psychic development is assessed to help determine how an interpretation should be presented, e.g. as a reductive or constructive one. It may even be concluded that an interpretation should not be presented since it would not be in the dreamer’s best interest to receive it at that time.

It is decided if the dream is opposing, modifying, or confirming the conscious situation of the dreamer. In other cases, it is considered if the dream is prospective (looking to a future potential), traumatic, telepathic, or prophetic.

7) The interpreter keeps in mind his or her own personality characteristics, and an interpretation is developed, presented if appropriate, and modified if necessary if other facts come to light, including subsequent dreams.

[Jennings]

Let's get the primitive bit out of the way. Take any dreamscape, remove its noise and scenery, and the subconscious will create further scenes familiar to the dreamer. In one sense we are like computers as after birth we are programmed with the current culture, views, and prevailing attitudes, and it is those which the subconscious utilises in its dreamscape; it's the subconscious's raw material. In a manner of speaking, it borrows today's costumes to dress its actors. Throughout antiquity I guess it has always been this way. For example, George Bernard Shaw, in writing his play, 'Pygmalion', used the theme from Ovid's 'Metamorphoses' later this play became 'My Fair Lady' then more recently, 'Pretty Woman' and, indeed, there have been many versions to this theme in the dramatic arts over the centuries; same theme, different plot! This is the situation in dreams.

Your fascination seems to be with the elementary human urges that have a primal genesis and this is what your dream is about. Firstly, the role of the other person in your dream was probably that of paleozoologist which, of course, is dream related to the task of unearthing biological remains, the details of which interest you; like digging-deep into the human psyche.

Beneath the calm surface of the lake (which represents the superficial order of humans in society) lies this concoction of suppressed human impulses, in some instances frantic to break free as it does in the lake's outflow a feature that you find exhilarating. With regard to yourself it probably indicates that on the surface you exercise social control but, at the same time, you are struggling with strong urges seeking expression or consummation.

The jungle scene is the same theme but with a different plot. There exits an indication that there may be someone among your associates who interets you emotionally. The fears that those in the forest house display, possibly arise from society's taboos but with which you feel comfortable. The bed scene adds a different perspective but one consistent to the theme. You're hatred of anyone disapproving of expressing those urges makes you wish them dead. Snakes and water-outflow are phalic symbols in your dream.