Poisoned Chalice [April and May 2001]

[JON]

Archaeologists uncovered a tomb in a sealed chamber in a ruined Abbey. It still had traces of paint. On the lid was:

A knight in chain mail clutching a shield to his chest. On a blue background were four silver chalices [2 above 2]. Just visible over it was the distinctive encircled cross of the sword hilt.

The Latin inscription around the lid’s edge said he was Sir William Deville who had died on 12 June 1225, aged 52. Oddly the phrase “pray for soul of” [Orate Pro Anima] was missing.

Inside the tomb was a skeleton with a deep wound in his skull. Matched by a gashed helmet and dented shield. The sword blade was broken. His chain mail and surcoat [sleeveless garment over armour] were torn and blood-stained. Clutched in a mailed fist was a yellowed scrap of paper , which cryptically said “look with [or to] you heart, not with your eyes”.

One of the team saw a fleeting dark figure holding a glowing chalice before it vanished. Shortly after, a silver cup was unearthed. It was ancient and Byzantine. In 1204 the Venetians and their allies had sacked and plundered Constantinople [originally Byzantium, now Istanbul]. The shield now had three chalices….

Research into Sir William’s life revealed he’d been a mercenary at Constantinople, and had stolen four chalices from a palace there. Three key sites associated with him were identified for the ‘treasure hunt’. At each the same dark figure was seen just before an identical chalice was discovered. Once all four were found, the shield went blank!

The British Government came to an “amicable arrangement” with the Turkish for the return of their “stolen heritage”. The four chalices were displayed proudly in a glass case in a Turkish museum. Next to a model of the tomb with its striking blank shield. The dark figure was seen no more. The inscription now included “pray for his soul”. And the skeleton seemed to grin.

Each year, on the anniversary of Sir William’s death, a service was held at the tomb. With a Turkish representative in attendance. Draped over the altar was a cloth with the original shield of four silver chalices on a blue background. But with a new addition. The Turkish flag in the middle!

What does this all mean?

[licia25]

Originally Posted by JON

Archaeologists uncovered a tomb in a sealed chamber in a ruined Abbey. It still had traces of paint. On the lid was:

A knight in chain mail clutching a shield to his chest. On a blue background were four silver chalices [2 above 2]. Just visible over it was the distinctive encircled cross of the sword hilt.

The Latin inscription around the lid’s edge said he was Sir William Deville who had died on 12 June 1225, aged 52. Oddly the phrase “pray for soul of” [Orate Pro Anima] was missing.

Inside the tomb was a skeleton with a deep wound in his skull. Matched by a gashed helmet and dented shield. The sword blade was broken. His chain mail and surcoat [sleeveless garment over armour] were torn and blood-stained. Clutched in a mailed fist was a yellowed scrap of paper , which cryptically said “look with [or to] you heart, not with your eyes”.

One of the team saw a fleeting dark figure holding a glowing chalice before it vanished. Shortly after, a silver cup was unearthed. It was ancient and Byzantine. In 1204 the Venetians and their allies had sacked and plundered Constantinople [originally Byzantium, now Istanbul]. The shield now had three chalices….

Research into Sir William’s life revealed he’d been a mercenary at Constantinople, and had stolen four chalices from a palace there. Three key sites associated with him were identified for the ‘treasure hunt’. At each the same dark figure was seen just before an identical chalice was discovered. Once all four were found, the shield went blank!

The British Government came to an “amicable arrangement” with the Turkish for the return of their “stolen heritage”. The four chalices were displayed proudly in a glass case in a Turkish museum. Next to a model of the tomb with its striking blank shield. The dark figure was seen no more. The inscription now included “pray for his soul”. And the skeleton seemed to grin.

Each year, on the anniversary of Sir William’s death, a service was held at the tomb. With a Turkish representative in attendance. Draped over the altar was a cloth with the original shield of four silver chalices on a blue background. But with a new addition. The Turkish flag in the middle!

What does this all mean?

what a very detailed dream, one that I myself may never understand but i'll tell you what i guess....?
chalice=power (a possible running theme in your dreams)
to find four of them? quite an accomplishment, ahh but it was with help...hmmm (the dark figure)
Helping solve an ancient mystery, helping such an old soul, a heroic feat.
And at the end, all is well. But Turkish claim the treasure, does this anger or perturb you?
The great many details in this dream make it seem very real, yet I find no evidence that it is. Perhaps you WANT it to be real. I think the cause for the details may also be a direct reflection of your love for history (and of course your intellegence is obviously a factor). This is definently a vivid dream and you've remembered it very well. This is very much a story telling dream that took you on quite a journey, i would look into what could have led up to it. Sometimes factors that seem very unrelated can cause very vivid dreams. I would also look closley at what this dream and it's many details mean to you, how it makes you feel, that is where i would begin to interpret this dream.
Keep me updated.
good luck
-licia

[JON]

Thanks for your feedback and comments. My "love of history" clearly did help shape its form and content. It did seem very realistic. I think the "story" begins with the original theft. The whole dream is clearly a Morality Tale. So my interpretation is this:

1) Sir William committed a crime in his 1204 theft. And a sin - he broke one or more of God’s Commandments to achieve it. He compounded the felony by bringing the four chalices home to England, as his prize. Why he split them up wasn’t made clear.

2) About 20 years later he dies a violent death. This is not explained. But the evidence indicates there was a vicious fight. The battered shield shows he defended himself. The gashed helmet and skull, and broken sword, show that his attempt to save himself was unsuccessful - the killer blow. But was it in battle or murder?

His remains contrast sharply with the magnificent tomb. There seems to have been no consideration or ceremony. Just looks like the body was dumped and tomb closed. The absence of that key phrase - “pray for his soul”, shows someone wanted him damned in the eyes of God. But why?

And who put that piece of paper in his hand. And why? What did they mean by that odd phrase? And who was intended to read it?

The chalices on the shield are another mystery, Were they a sign of Sir William’s pride in his crime? Or that someone wanted the whole world to know what he’d done? But, in the Middle Ages, such things were fairly common. And what he did might have been regarded, at that time, as fairly trivial. Just 'spoils of war'. And if he had committed a sin, why did the Church allow him to be buried in one of their buildings?

3) The Abbey is ruined, by stark contrast with the intact chamber. Another ’victim’. This time of the greed of Henry VIII in the 1530s.

But was the chamber sealed before, thereby saving it from discovery and destruction? Or after the Abbey was destroyed, for some unknown reason? The dream doesn’t make this clear either.

4) The chamber is discovered in the 21st Century during an archaeological dig. But does this cause the “dark figure” to appear? Or the opening of the tomb itself? The chalice shows that it is Sir William’s spirit, now released.

“He” sees a chance, at last, to redeem “himself”. And guides the archaeologists to discover the chalices. Once all are found, the tomb’s shield mysteriously goes blank. Part of his spirit’s “mission” has been achieved.

The most important part, however, is their return to their rightful country - Turkey. Here the British Government acted honourably - for once! In recognition of this, a Turkish representative is present at the yearly service of thanks. Held on the day of Sir William’s death. The key phrase is added to his tomb.

In short, Sir William has finally atoned for his crime. This has been recognised and accepted. His soul can now be at rest. But the dream has many vague areas and gaps, raising more questions than it answers.

Thanks again. Cheers. Jon.

[licia25]

From this the question that comes to mind straight away is "did sir william really commit a crime or do wrong in some way?"
The chruch did let him be buried there and he was obviously killed by a tramatic blow to the head. Sounds alitte too much that someone perhaps wanted his treasures and not for good reason. Yes, sure he could have just been greedy but i can't help but want to look at the OTHER side of things. Perhaps he had been pursued for many years, protecting his treasures and had even hidden them in various places so that they could not be found by the wrong people. But in the end he sacrificed his life to protect them. Though history shows that it very likely was the other way around (your interpretation) your lingering questions (in my opinion) seem better answered with him NOT being a 'bad guy'. Perhaps you come to this conclusion thru all you stuidies of history, I was a huge lover of history in college and in all my classes learned that alot of history is done thru deduction, "well this was the mentality of the people at the time so they most likely did THIS for THIS reason" but alot of times there was never any hard, black and white facts to prove so in situations like these. In my own study of history (i've regretably left all that behind to concentrate on things that took me away from that part of my life) i've always wondered why that was so. Perhaps is was just my professors but I've always found it funny that so much history is based on equations. So here is what i will say, tho mind you only you can, in the end, fully understand this dream and found out WHY you had it in the first place, perhaps your dream is showing you that despite the history books and equating that this was the way things were then, perhaps this dreams wants to show you that sometimes things are NOT what they appear. Things can be vague or in black and white. And in showing you that, two sides to the story have popped up and you are basing your side on what you have learned. Sometimes what we have learned can blind us to what is right in front of us. Your love of history could be making you look too deeply at the dates and facts of the time period instead of just basing it on what you know about PEOPLE. This dream is so full of facts, facts that lead you away from the emotions of it. Ah, but that would be an essay of sorts and I don't want to get into that so i would say perhaps to make sure you are looking at both sides of the story!
glad to see it coming along
-licia

[JON]

Hi again Licia. Thanks for all your comments. I've posted on the 'Boy' painting, which is generating some real interesting interpretations!

I do love History, and have delved into most periods of it.... My favourite times are the 16th and 18th Centuries. Viz the Middle Ages, my speciality is Church Architecture. I am mainly self-taught on that, through first-hand observation and experience. Re History, I often find myself 'looking at both sides of the argument' at the same time. And this gets really confusing!

Sir William did look as though he was 'defending' what he considered 'precious'. That someone wanted to 'steal it away'. But, maybe, they were simply trying to 'take back' what the knight stole in the first place! After all, he did remove the chalices from a Palace in Constantinople. They weren't his, and no-one gave him permission to do so.

He was a mercenary [basically a 'hired thug'], probably 'in the pay' of the Venetians who sacked the city in 1204. They looted four even bigger items, which now stand on St Mark's Cathedral in Venice. Those famous bronze horses. They were originally on the Circus Maximus in Rome, and, somewhere in their history, lost their chariot and its driver! But Emperor Constantine wanted to 'decorate' his new Capital, and off they 'galloped' to Constantinople!!

Cheers, Jon.

[unclesirbobbyrobson]

Is this a dream?

Well if it is then it could relate to reality in many ways. To me the dream could link to western involvemnt in the middel east? Have you been thinking about such matters? The british governments involvement in iraq could be a direct parralel for the crusades in those times.

The dream could link to some thoughts regarding this situation or something similar.

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A dream dictionary that explores the variety of meanings in a dream symbol

[JON]

Well if it is then it could relate to reality in many ways. To me the dream could link to Western involvement in the Middle East? Have you been thinking about such matters? The British governments involvement in Iraq could be a direct parallel for the Crusades in those times.

The dream could link to some thoughts regarding this situation or something similar. [/i]

I feel that it is very much a dream. Over the years I have visited so many churches, abbeys and cathedrals, that they tend to 'blur into each other'. I've lost count of the Medieval tombs I've seen. Sir William's is very much of its time - the 1220s. An effigy of a cross-legged knight in surcoat covered chain mail, clutching a shield. I did some research, and his Coat of Arms on the shield is based upon that of Sir John Botiler. The nearest name to Deville in books on Heraldry is Deyville or Deiville. I think it was derived from the town of Deauville.

The Latin inscription on the tomb, in full, reads

Hic iacet Willelmi Deville, Banerettus, qui obiit XII die mensis Iuni, Anno Domini MCCXXV. Cujus animae propitietur Deus. Amen.

[Here [within] lies ]buried] William Deville, Knight, who died on 12 day of June in the Year of Our Lord 1225. May God have mercy upon his soul. Amen.]

A pretty standard Medieval epitaph.

Re the Crusades, I worked out the significance of the date of September 11th the day after it happened. I rearranged the date on a piece of paper, got rid of any uneccessary numbers. And ended up with 1191. The year Richard the Lionheart attempted to capture Jerusalem from Saladdin. Bin Laden thought he was Saladdin, and was was 'crusading' against the West....

I'm a Historian, although I've worked for several government departments, including the one I'm currently employed by. Yet I don't really have a very high opinion of politicians, or give much of a fig for politics! We have no right to be in Iraq, pure and simple!

Thanks for your reply, Jon.

[JON]

Well, if it is, then it could relate to reality in many ways. To me the dream could link to Western involvement in the Middle East? Have you been thinking about such matters? The British governments involvement in Iraq could be a direct parallel for the Crusades in those times.

The dream could link to some thoughts regarding this situation or something similar.

I feel that it is very much a dream. Over the years I have visited so many churches, abbeys and cathedrals, that they tend to 'blur into each other'. I've lost count of the Medieval tombs I've seen. Sir William's is very much of its time - the 1220s. An effigy of a cross-legged knight in surcoat covered chain mail, clutching a shield. I did some research, and his Coat of Arms on the shield is based upon that of Sir John Botiler. The nearest name to Deville in books on Heraldry is Deyville or Deiville. I think it was derived from the town of Deauville.

The Latin inscription on the tomb, in full, reads

Hic iacet Willelmi Deville, Banerettus, qui obiit XII die mensis Iuni, Anno Domini MCCXXV. Cujus animae propitietur Deus. Amen.

[Here [within] lies ]buried] William Deville, Knight, who died on 12 day of June in the Year of Our Lord 1225. May God have mercy upon his soul. Amen.]

A pretty standard Medieval epitaph.

Re the Crusades, I worked out the significance of the date of September 11th the day after it happened. I rearranged the date on a piece of paper, got rid of any uneccessary numbers. And ended up with 1191. The year Richard the Lionheart attempted to capture Jerusalem from Saladdin. Bin Laden thought he was Saladdin, and was was 'crusading' against the West....

I'm a Historian, although I've worked for several government departments, including the one I'm currently employed by. Yet I don't really have a very high opinion of politicians, or give much of a fig for politics! We have no right to be in Iraq, pure and simple!

Thanks for your reply, Jon.